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that's a silly analogy 57. A better analogy would be is a electric car the same as a gasoline powered car.

Why would the cost matter? Why would the equipment matter?

AFAIK currently Dish chooses movies which get a small part recorded on certain PVR model receivers. Since HDD space for this is already separated it does not use up any of the normal space. It starts immedietely.

This new service which is supposed to work through internet I know little about. I would guess with a high speed connection it wouldn't take more than several secs to have enough buffered to begin playing? No idea what equipment is required.

Even there current service I would consider VOD. Very very limited choice though.

again. If you can play the video through the stb when you want to I believe this is the spirit of the term VOD.

How well or poorly it is implemented is irrelevant.
 

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Helpful discussion. When is something a tax, when an involuntary donation?

Video On Demand is a live streaming technology that allows for thousands of choices of programming at any given moment. This means being able to stream SD or HD signals just as if you were watching a linear channel. But instead of allocating one channel for each title (as PPV does), now you decide what is sent down the pipe on the one channel. That might be something from Howard Stern, NFL Network, Treehouse, National Geographic, Food, TMN, MPix, or dozens of others.

Cable delivers that model. Today.

Satellite is trying to find some variation on this and undermine the cable flavour by appropriating the name.

Satellite can "store-and-forward" by using a portion of a customer's hard drive and download, overnight, a fixed set of movies and shows which can be played back, "on demand", for a fee. The limitation is the size of the customer's PVR hard drive; and how much one wants to give up for the privilege. Who wants a PVR with only 10 or 15 HD hours remaining available for personal use? And the other 10 or 15 hours filled with 5 or 6 movies at $6-$8 per viewing?

Satellite can also "jump the shark" and deliver broadband downloads over DSL so that content is pre-loaded on the satellite PVR or, a buffer is created for a "live" streaming event. The point is ... that is NOT satellite any longer ... it's DSL. I wouldn't recommend you try that in HD. Nor would I care to pay the bandwidth bill.

Play semantics any way you wish: "On Demand" is actually what it sounds like. The ability to access thousands of titles, starting after a click or two, at any moment. Satellite TV simply cannot do this, even fudged with a 160 GB PVR. Or a 2 Terrabyte PVR, for that matter.

Cable delivers this user experience, today. Satellite cannot.
 

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the whole "Video On Demand is a live streaming technology ......" is Rogers marketing. Is that what VOD is because they say it?

Is Bell "THE FULL HD EXPERIENCE"? I think not.

The amount of VOD events is irrelevant. I doubt ROD have the library it has now when it started. It was still VOD then.

Don't confuse marketing with real life.

Let me ask you this. If there was a flash drive in the rogers stb that actually buffered a small portion of the video for better playback.........would that change anything?

Which is better? ROD without any question is. That does not mean the other guy is not VOD.

I wonder if we would even be having this conversation if there was never a ROD to compare it to.
 

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So, if Bell can not have On Demand, maybe they should be complaining to the CRTC that this is unfair competition and a limitation of the technology. Similar to how Satellite consumers can no longer share their account if they have two homes (cottage) because Cable subscribers are unable to do this.

Bell won't do this because On Demand is very much possible no matter what technology they would use to "download" the movie. Currently, they also have a launch pad for gaming, but the ability is still there and is interactive on any receiver.

Just like how Rogers uses the same cable for all their services (internet access and television) which uses the ability to utilize their two way network to control it's on demand service. Bell could very well do the same with the DSL backbone. Many Bell sympatico availability locations even offer 16mbit downloads which would be enough to stream HD on demand.
Rogers can't offer this because it would knock out the entire block with the use of bandwidth (since it's all shared).
 

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That "rude" comment you said I indicated was directed at SensualPoet's comment "Again, do you want to give back precious PVR space to Bell in order to have them sell you more stuff and you can record less of what you want?".
That misleads someone to think the PVR's will record the events without you knowing (like Dish's older "on demand" technology used) and use up additional space on the drive.
Others in the link I posted specifically stated that "it shows a menu of over 100 movies available for 24 hour viewing (very first post)" and "a popup comes up and tells you when it has downloaded enough for you to start watching (post #101)".
It obviously wouldn't be wasting a whole hard drive's worth of "precious PVR space" (this estimated by the PVR's 200 hours of space divided by 100 movies with an average of 2 hours each).
Clearly this cable employee did not read the comments in the linked thread before trolling over into this satellite thread and posting that comment. In any case this feature may never make it to Expressvu. I simply mentioned it because it is possible we may one day see this.
 

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saw a news release about Dish network launching their VOD IPTV service today. They called it a "Push/Pull" system.

Bell can only be a few years behind? :) :rolleyes:
 

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Its not a deal breaker for me ( I don't know if I would ever even use it, if it were available
I wouldn't mind having it, IF it was free, but I am satisfied with my current setup and programming
Whether it was delivered via satellite, or via dsl, with a buffer, does it really matter?
As long as its available "on demand", or with very little wait time, then it doesn't matter what you call it
 

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If it were super compressed and "beamed" onto your Hard Drive in 25 minutes, great but otherwise, set a Timer go to bed, get up watch the movie.

Is it really imperative that we watch a movie NOW.......
 

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Yes
I want everything yesterday
Thats why I have high speed internet, microwave, and a really fast car
I can't wait
I couldn't deal with having a movie buffer for 10 minutes while the popcorn is popping
That is unacceptable, just like calling ExpressVu "Full HD"
 

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Others in the link I posted specifically stated that "it shows a menu of over 100 movies available for 24 hour viewing (very first post)" and "a popup comes up and tells you when it has downloaded enough for you to start watching (post #101)".
It obviously wouldn't be wasting a whole hard drive's worth of "precious PVR space" (this estimated by the PVR's 200 hours of space divided by 100 movies with an average of 2 hours each).
Have another look at what Dish On Demand actually is:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/whats_on_dish/dish_on_demand/index.shtml

You might want to follow the links, as well.

From TV networks (Speed, HGTV, AMC, etc) they have 4 programs available at any given time with a refresh once a week.

For movies, they have 16 titles for October; presumably that's 4 titles a week.

DishOnDemand specifically requires your ViP 622 or ViP 722 satellite receiver to be connected to a broadband Internet source to pull in content. This is not free as Dish states:

To access expanded capabilities and features of the DISH Network receiver, you must have broadband Internet service. Most Internet Service Providers have a “Fair Access Policy” which sets usage limits on the amount of data that can be downloaded in a time period. Contact your Internet Service Provider to find out more about their Fair Access Policy.
Note also that NONE of this content is HD (yet) nor is broadband capable of delivering real-time HD. You mentioned Sympatico Optimax at 16 mbps without mentioning a $100/mth price tag. Or that broadcast HD is up to 19 mbps, and delivered that way over cable, without further compression.

I stay firm to the point that Satellite, on its own, is incapable of delivering a true, streaming, thousands of titles live, On Demand experience. Dishnetwork is trying to muddy the waters with -- pardon my characterization -- inept variations. A handful of titles on the hard drive, or resorting to $100/mth Internet connections to deliver "satellite on demand" is NOT On Demand.

Given Bell ExpressVu's new owners, and enormous new debt levels, they are also unlikely to make any further major capital investments for at least another year as they figure out which business segments are strategic and which they will simply spin off.

Sigh. My point remains: satellite cannot deliver a credible On Demand product simply because of limited bandwidth and one-way delivery.
 

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Have another look at what Dish On Demand actually is:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/whats_on_dish/dish_on_demand/index.shtml

You might want to follow the links, as well.

From TV networks (Speed, HGTV, AMC, etc) they have 4 programs available at any given time with a refresh once a week.

For movies, they have 16 titles for October; presumably that's 4 titles a week.
You're getting confused with the variety of On Demand being brought online. First of all, where do you see that shows are being removed after a month? Where do you see that only 16 titles will be the only titles available? Does Rogers announce every single show or movie they are going to post? No, they don't. Is this the first few months of it's launch? Yes, and it's a new type of offering from a Satellite provider, so they're not going to jump in neck deep and drown in it.

If you closely follow this link:

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/whats_on_dish/dish_on_demand/dishonline/index.shtml

You will see that this is just one of the variety of ways the the On Demand service is being provided to customers.

DishOnDemand specifically requires your ViP 622 or ViP 722 satellite receiver to be connected to a broadband Internet source to pull in content. This is not free as Dish states:
It's free as in Dish does not charge for it. So to them, obviously, it's free.


Note also that NONE of this content is HD (yet) nor is broadband capable of delivering real-time HD. You mentioned Sympatico Optimax at 16 mbps without mentioning a $100/mth price tag. Or that broadcast HD is up to 19 mbps, and delivered that way over cable, without further compression.
Why do I need to mention the $100/mth price tag? I am referring to the technology that is available to Bell users and not to Rogers users. Cogeco even offers it though with their "Internet High Speed Pro" at a cheaper price $69.95 and still 16mbit. HD can and will be be delivered over this type of "pipe" with the same compression that Rogers, Bell and the other providers are utilizing to spare their circuit/bandwidth in real time. 19mbit speeds are far from realistic currently with mpeg2 receivers. With the arrival of Mpeg4 receivers, only the naive will continue to think that HD streaming is not possible over this type of bandwidth.

I stay firm to the point that Satellite, on its own, is incapable of delivering a true, streaming, thousands of titles live, On Demand experience. Dishnetwork is trying to muddy the waters with -- pardon my characterization -- inept variations. A handful of titles on the hard drive, or resorting to $100/mth Internet connections to deliver "satellite on demand" is NOT On Demand.

Given Bell ExpressVu's new owners, and enormous new debt levels, they are also unlikely to make any further major capital investments for at least another year as they figure out which business segments are strategic and which they will simply spin off.

Sigh. My point remains: satellite cannot deliver a credible On Demand product simply because of limited bandwidth and one-way delivery.

I find it comical that because cable companies were the first to bring upon on demand service, that they think they can dictate how it can be delivered. The name "On Demand" is not copyrighted.

This technology is "firmly" able to deliver the On Demand service to their Satellite customers who wish to have it. Since every Rogers receiver has this ability, does every user want this ability and use it? Would some of them rather spend less on a different receiver and still receive 100% digital signal, unlike our Rogers friends with over 30 analog channels still in place?

It's delusional to consider that the use of internet connectivity can't be used for this process and I think it's going to be quite successful.

:rolleyes:

..............I stand by saying that Satellite, no matter how On demand is delivered, and as long as it's delivered at the touch of a button, IS On Demand.
 

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If Satellite is using 16 mbps broadband to deliver "on demand" satellite content, that's not Satellite On Demand. Most Bell ExpressVu customers do not live in Bell wireline territory or even have the ability subscribe to Sympatico Broadband (let alone Optimax 16 mbps).

Satellite TV (on its own) simply can't provide a full function On Demand. If they partner with a local neighbourhood fibre broadband company maybe they can approximate it. But why wouldn't the local neighbourhood fibre broadband company just cut out Satellite altogether?

Satellite is one-way TV and is constrained by a very limited number of live feeds which are delivered nationally. You simply can't deliver thousands of movies and shows, at the touch of a remote, according to the whims of 2 million customers independently via satellite technology as a wireline (aka cable) service can today.

Obfuscate as much as you like: but every solution you come up with is either woefully limited (a handful of titles pre-recorded to PVR) or driven by some wireline (aka NON-satellite delivery) which could just as easily be delivered by any Internet provider.
 

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First of all, I said that the technology is available for 16 mbps downloads which would make HD On Demand deliverable. No one said that it would be available everywhere just yet. Just like how Rogers cable "wireline territory" is not spread across all of Canada.

Satellite TV on it's own of course can't provide this function. We are speaking about the use of new technology being offered by Dish.

Satellite was initially designed to be a "one-way TV" solution, but wow.... look what happened, Progress! Seeing that internet connectivity is available anywhere (thanks to two way Satellite as well as), dsl, cable, fiber (in the states and don't think it's in Canada for the residential audience), etc... On Demand would be as well. Having constraints to the technology, does not invalidate it.

One can remain xenophobic or adopt/accept the new technological changes and it's uses. Satellite VOD is here to stay whether they offer 1 movie every 13.4 days or 1500 new movies a week. It does not change the fact that they can be ordered and delivered when the user chooses with the use of any medium.
 

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It's VOD if expressvu wants to say it is. Just like True HDTV is not 1080p but is still HDTV
VOD on Expressvu is not what some want it to be but its no big deal.
I can run a VOD service from my house with kids on bikes delivering VCR tapes one day a week to those that write me a letter to ask for them.
Can't it still be "finger licking good" even if its not chicken?
 
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