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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I'm new to this, and searching posts dind't really awnser my questions, and I was thinking this deserved it's own thread, so here I go.

I am interested in receiving all sort of satellite broadcasts, both free, and paid, which is why I want to invest in a good DVB-S and S2 compatible USB box with a card slot.

So here's what I would like to do:

-Buy some dishes, and use the big C-Band Dish at my granda's to see what I can get.

-Go to my grandparent's on the other side of my family, grab the card from their set-top box and see if I can get BellTV to work in Windows Media Center 7.

-Test out MCE 7 with a DISQEC, a cband dish, a 1.2m ku dish, an 18" ku dish, and another 18" ku dish.

-Attempt to get HD FTA fed into my house, and set up a full PVR home theatre computer system.


What I think I know:

-As long as I am pointed at a DVB-S or S2 satellite, it does not matter whether I'm using CBAND, Ku, Ka, etc, as the LNB coverts the siganals to approximately the same frequencies for transportation over coaxial cable anyways.

-I can get some majour US networks in HD using FTA.

-I can buy service from Dish Network or Bell Canada, and use the card in my computer to view pay TV.

-It's only a myth that people with lots of satellite dishes also have old carparts spread over their lawn, and also eat lots of possum.

-DSS and DBS has limited content, and virtually no tuner cards availiable. DVB-S is a more widely adopted standard.

-A small foundation can allow small dishes to be ground mounted.

-An FTA box can be used with a legal SmartCard from a satellite provider.

So, based on what I just said, is there anything that needs correcting, and can anybody recommend a good cost effective DVB-S2 USB box with card support?


Thanks!
Taylor
 

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I don't think Dish or Bell will give you access to their system using FTA equipment. If you get it, it is VIA the illegal way. This is a BIG no no on DHC.

If on the other hand, you wish to tap into all the weird and wondeful FTA that is actually FREE and LEGAL, then yes, a DVB-s or S2 will give you want you want.

I had bought a QBOX DVB-S2 USB box but it is buggy as heck. IT doesn't like to use my STAB HH120 motor at all. I have to move the dish using my PANSAT and then, connect the QBOX to the dish. Even then, does it want to work on its own terms. It is a 50-50 chance that the box will perform as it should.

I haven't tried the DVB-S2 tuner cards so I can't really comment.

To move the Big Dish, you'll need something called Gbox, I think, that converts the USALS or DiSecq signals to move the big dish.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Cool. I wasn't really thinking about motors though. Am I confused about DISQECs? I thoguht that they were like combiners for dishes, so I could tell it to go through port 1 to connect to satellite A or port 2 to connect to satellite B.

Now as for the Bell and DN thing; I don't mean pirated satellite, I was just thinking the following:

I was thinking that Bell uses DVB-S boxes to capture signals. These boxes are useless without cards, so Bell gives you cards used to interpret and decode signals. I want to sign up for their service, and use a card to LEGALLY interpret signals. I don't want to get into that shifty hackign of nagravision and crap like that.
 

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DiSecq switch will do what you mentionned but when connected to a big dish motor, it is the signal that I was referring to.

On a regular FTA box, you have no means to provide 36 volt or so to power the motor of a big dish. Using a Gbox (I think that's the name), your FTA sends a DiSecq command to the Gbox,it then converts that signal to whatever is required to move the big dish.

In lamens term, the Big Dish needs voltage (high voltage) and it tell it's position VIA a reed switch that goes tic tic tic so many times counting positions. IE: to go from sat a to sat b, there are 234 tics. Did I lose you cause I think I lost myself here!!!
 

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The only legal way to get the Bell TV signal is with their card in their box, with their subscription. There is no legal way, at least within the rules of this board, to get Bell satellite TV otherwise.

The card is half of it, you need a Nagra CAM, and it needs to have a receiver ID and box keys, and the card needs married to the box. Bell will only marry their card to the box they provide. It is against board rules to break Bell's security system, even to do what you propose, although technically maybe legal.

There is no legal way to get Dishnetwork at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, DN I knew about and it was more curiosity, but I thouht I would mention it anyways becuase It's not really piracy...

So, essentialy, as far as Bell goes, a card is paired with a box, and can't (not shouldn't, CAN'T) just stick a card in any old DVB-S2 box, even by calling Bell and giving them a MAC address or similiar id, right?

Edit: Someone just told me BellHD doesn't use DVB? What do they use?
 

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No, you can't get nothing from BELL unless you have their receiver.
FTA is just that, whatever is out there not requiring any descrambler nor access card.
 

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Bell and Dish use Turbo 8PSK, and they are the only ones to use it for DVB, at least in North America.

You cannot just stick the card in any box. You need a box with a Nagra CAM, and the latest firmware for it. The card is married to the receiver ID, which is a serial number on the box or CAM module. Bell could if they wanted to, marry their cards to non-Bell equipment, but they just won't.

Getting Dishnetwork at all is piracy according to current Canadian laws and court decisions, and with that, board management follow that, and enforce it.
 

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The question about Bell and cards and non Bell equipment has been answered fully so I'll skip that one.

I once upon a time had a DVB-S card in my computer. It did not and could not provide enough power over the coax to power the LNB. The only way I could get it to work was to hook up a receiver to the other output and turn the receiver on, then it worked just fine. So if you do get a DVB-S/S2 card make sure it can power your LNB(s).
Another option available is to use an IR blaster to control a receiver. I'm not familiar with Windows Media Centre but here is what I am working on doing with MythTV.
FTA receiver connected to my mythtv box via an Hauppauge PVR-150 card.
Myth box controls FTA receiver via IR Blaster (sends remote IR signals to the FTA receiver, just like entering in the channel number on your remote) Say I want to watch RTV. I select RTV channel from my program guide, myth box sends the appropriate remote command via IRblaster to FTA receiver which changes the channel to the right channel for RTV.
I had this working when ION and NASA were open on 119.

Using this setup I don't have to worry about not being able to power an LNB nor do I have to worry about being able to power a motor. The receiver takes care of all that stuff.

The down side is, it could be problematic if you have a motor on a Ku and a C band dish(s) multiple IR blasters could be a pain to configure, maybe not I've never looked into it.
Another downside is you'd need a seperate PVR-150 (or something better for HD) card for each receiver, the upside is you can record multiple shows at the same time.

I think the possums come with the extra dishes, I think I saw one hiding the other day :D
 

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"It's only a myth that people with lots of satellite dishes also have old carparts spread over their lawn, and also eat lots of possum."

I just want to say,
Possum is greasy, but will do in a famine, I dont havem old car parts around , but I did find two pickups when I cut my grass this week.
:)
 

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What I think I know:

-As long as I am pointed at a DVB-S or S2 satellite, it does not matter whether I'm using CBAND, Ku, Ka, etc, as the LNB coverts the siganals to approximately the same frequencies for transportation over coaxial cable anyways.
That is correct. The only thing is that you have to make sure to configure your receiver correctly based on the LNBF and switch type used. C-band LNBF's commonly use an LO of 5150 and Ku band LNBF's generally use 10750.

-I can get some majour US networks in HD using FTA.
Yes, that is correct. You can also get their studio feeds as well which offers about twice the resolution of the same networks' OTA affiliate feed.

-I can buy service from Dish Network or Bell Canada, and use the card in my computer to view pay TV.
Incorrect. Both Dish Network and Bell TV marry their access cards to a specific receiver so you are unable to use your access card in any other receiver. Furthermore, Dish Network is not even legal in Canada. The only legal provider of American subscription programming in Canada is HITS TV as it is on C band and is not considered as a DTH service under Canadian law.

-It's only a myth that people with lots of satellite dishes also have old carparts spread over their lawn, and also eat lots of possum.
No need for an excessive amount of satellite dishes as you can easily receive multiple satellites by motorising your dish. There is really no need to have more than 2 satellite dishes, one for C-band and another one for Ku-band. In most cases, it is even possible to do both C and Ku band on the same dish.

-DSS and DBS has limited content, and virtually no tuner cards availiable. DVB-S is a more widely adopted standard.
DVB-S is the current standard but more and more channels are migrating to DVB-S2 in order to save money on up-linking costs. This is due to DVB-S2 having better compression, using less "space" on the satellite.

-A small foundation can allow small dishes to be ground mounted.
Correct, as long as you don't have any obstructions in the distance. As well, it is generally a good idea to have dishes a few feet off the ground in order to avoid them being buried in snow during a winter storm. The only real requirement for a platform is for it to be solid and allow the dish mounting pole to be installed perfectly plumb.


-An FTA box can be used with a legal SmartCard from a satellite provider.
In European and other countries in the world, yes this is correct. However, our beloved North American providers are very greedy so they don't allow this as they make more $$$ by forcing everyone to rent out or buy their own receivers.


So, based on what I just said, is there anything that needs correcting, and can anybody recommend a good cost effective DVB-S2 USB box with card support?


Thanks!
Taylor
 

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The only legal provider of American subscription programming in Canada is HITS TV as it is on C band and is not considered as a DTH service under Canadian law.
US C-band subscription is still illegal, just under the radar and not pursued much, if at all, compared to US DBS providers and piracy.

DVB-S is the current standard but more and more channels are migrating to DVB-S2 in order to save money on up-linking costs. This is due to DVB-S2 having better compression, using less "space" on the satellite.
DVB-S2, strictly, is primarily an improved modulation system, which allows more bandwidth. Video compression is separate from DVB-S2, which aslo can increase/save bandwidth. Many FTA channels are just going MPEG4 for HD, on DVB-S modulation

"DSS", is an odd bird, only used by DirecTV. Back then, the platform was called DSS, but got sued for trademark infringement for the use of "DSS", so could not use that term anymore. I don't know why people call it that. It officially is just "DirecTV format"

DBS, generally, is just any service which primarily transmits on satellites in the 122500 to 12700 Mhz range with circular polarization. DBS, in North America, is all pay satellite services.
In European and other countries in the world, yes this is correct. However, our beloved North American providers are very greedy so they don't allow this as they make more $$$ by forcing everyone to rent out or buy their own receivers.
Not necessarily. A few European providers (Sky in the UK, and a Polish one at least), require their full box. Yes, many providers are also open enough to
issue CAMs to use in an Open-CI receiver. Conversely, there is (or was) one US ethnic provider which allowed CAMs one could use in any DVB receiver with a open CI slot.

So, based on what I just said, is there anything that needs correcting, and can anybody recommend a good cost effective DVB-S2 USB box with card support?


Thanks!
Taylor
Just, still, there is little need for a card slot of any sort in North America, at least for a hobbyist system.
 

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US C-band subscription is still illegal, just under the radar and not pursued much, if at all, compared to US DBS providers and piracy.
Incorrect, C-band subscription programming is perfectly legal in Canada. The current Canadian law states that non-Canadian DTH providers are illegal. DTH is defined as: "Direct-to-Home satellite broadcasting or DTH is the distribution of television signals from high-powered geostationary satellites to small dish antennas and satellite receivers in homes across the country."

As you know, C-band uses large dish antennas so it cannot be considered as a DTH provider. As such, it is exempt from current Canadian law. I had my lawyer confirm this as well and he agrees with me. In a nutshell, any provider using Ku band or the higher power DBS satellites is considered as a DTH provider under Canadian law. At this time, this includes Dish Network, DirecTV, Globecast on Galaxy 19, Home2US on SES 1, TVPool on SES 1, Claro TV on Intelsat 1R and TuVes HD on Telstar 12.
 

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You sure about that? http://www.*******************/15426894/petition.html

"Under existing Canadian laws, users of so-called grey-market satellite dishes — people who PAY for a U.S.-based satellite service — face up to one year in jail, or a $5,000 fine. Firms found guilty of the same offence face a $25,000 fine. This includes the big C-band dishes (that Canadians have had since the 1970's) as well."

Link is the the petition it's blocked though.
 

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You sure about that? http://www.*******************/15426894/petition.html

"Under existing Canadian laws, users of so-called grey-market satellite dishes — people who PAY for a U.S.-based satellite service — face up to one year in jail, or a $5,000 fine. Firms found guilty of the same offence face a $25,000 fine. This includes the big C-band dishes (that Canadians have had since the 1970's) as well."

Link is the the petition it's blocked though.
When making reference to Canadian law, it helps to quote from an official government source rather than some anonymous petition somebody started online. The Industry Canada website has a very good FAQ that clarifies the law in regards to the legality of non-Canadian DTH services.

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/h_sf05562.html#q1

The above website makes it very clear that the only legal DTH services available in Canada are Bell TV and Shaw Direct. As well, it states that "American DTH service providers do not have the lawful right in Canada to authorize the decoding of their programming". As C band subscription programming is NOT a DTH service, there is currently no Canadian law that forbids it. As stated previously in this thread, I had my lawyer confirm this as well.
 

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I'm surprised it's still legal for us to communicate from Country to Country via the internet. Like this forum or many others allow us to do.

It's good to see so much activity on the FTA section of this site lately. I need the info. Thanks Guys!
 
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