Mike it is not just about cellular. Competition by bending the rules. By hook or by crook? This goes across the board. Globalive was warned they were not compliant and they did nothing, they were told that all of the debt was held by Orascom and they should remedy that.. they did not. and now they will cry foul? Change the laws? Hmm interesting.. but how about changing them for the next auction. Why should Wind benefit for some back room deal and the other new players not? Do take a moment and apply this to something else. We all agree to play by the same rules and at the last moment I decided that I am better than you and I will have the rules bent for my benefit. Then it comes to light and I begin to cry foul.. sure I cheated, yes I bent the rules and yes it was not fair.. BUT I will still complain.Some of you should be over in the UBB thread supporting the CRTC decision too!
Harper took a short cut to get a little competition into our wonderfully locked up Canadian telecommunications industry, knowing full well the outcome if it went to the courts. They rolled the dice. So now if they're forced to change the law they'll need the support of the opposition parties. If Canadians support a more competitive telecommunications industry then the opposition will have no choice but to support Harper. If not, shutdown Wind Mobile and we go back to the status quo. If the Tories tried to change the law first, it would have never passed with all the opposition bickering. Harper has forced the issue if nothing else. Sometimes the system needs a cowboy.
Even if the opposition agrees (and we all know that's not a given) how long would this take anyway? Rewriting the Telecom Act sounds like a multi-year effort to me. I could be wrong of course but the government usually isn't a model speed and efficiency...If Canadians support a more competitive telecommunications industry then the opposition will have no choice but to support Harper. If not, shutdown Wind Mobile and we go back to the status quo. If the Tories tried to change the law first, it would have never passed with all the opposition bickering. Harper has forced the issue if nothing else. Sometimes the system needs a cowboy.
That's irrelevant now. They have 45 days to make themselves compliant. That's now all that matters to their continued existence.Work within the laws to become compliant? Were they not supposed to be compliant from the beginning? Did the CRTC tell them several times they were not compliant? This is not just about wireless, the rules can not be bent at a whim?
The first time they were swamped they outsourced to the Peterborough call centre. That worked well enough, so the next time they were swamped they outsourced to an Egyptian call centre (just one). Apparently they weren't nearly as happy with the result, so they are looking at local options now, preferably in-house.And I have it from people in wind that wind is running on a skeleton staff, but the fact that they are swamped NOW does not explain why the call centers were outsourced months ago.
That is not the way indirect equity works. Globalive bought those things with the money Orascom invested. They cannot simply take their equipment. In the event of bankruptcy they would become the largest creditor, assets would be liquidated, and they would get their allotted amount. Now sure they could work out some complicated scheme where by Globalive sells it to Orascom and uses the money to pay Orascom for their debts, but I'm not even sure if that's legal.Indirect equity? Orascom owns the equipment. Orascom bought the equipment, Orascom shipped the equipment and Orascom paid to have the equipment installed. .. So yes Orascom owns it.
The government might buy Wind to save face and to keep the competition they so desired alive. It would more likely work like the auto bailouts rather than full-scale takeover. Personally I want Wind to survive because they're helping lower mobile rates in Canada. Without the combined marketing and work of the new entrants there is no chatr for example.Now why would the government buy Wind? I mean there are provisions in place if you do not comply. You would have the government run wind until they sell it? Interesting idea.. flawed but interesting.
What I have to ask is.. you seem to agree that Wind broke the rules and you want someone to bail them out. Why is this?
Rockjock, the difference is that the companies you mention were NOT in the "space" reserved by nationalists for Canadian companies...no matter how much some other car companies etc. would like to have stopped them coming here.I wonder how did VW, Porsche, Volvo, Toyota, Bosch, Philips, Honda, Snap-on, wallmart, cosco, lafarge, bass pro shops and the list goes on make it so they could set up shop here? Did they all know tony clements? Did they get back room deals? No they followed the guidelines and wanted to do business here. So lets bend them so some guy who's business plan was so good, so revolutionary, so spectacular, so overwhelmingly genus like that he was laughed out of banks, trust companies and investment firms. Yes lets!
I'm not a lawyer and I just skimmed the doc, but it looks to me that the court didn't say that Globalive wasn't Canadian-controlled. The court said that one of the reasons the cabinet used was not in the Telecom Act (ensuring access to foreign capital, technology and experience). If the cabinet had just left that clause out and not limited the decision to Globalive, I think could have approved the cabinet decision.The Governor in Council has in many respects adhered to and acknowledged the Canadian telecommunication policy objectives as set out in section 7 of the Act. However, the Governor in Council has stepped outside those provisions by inserting a previously unknown policy objective into section 7; namely, that of ensuring access to foreign capital, technology and experience. Secondly it erred by limiting its Decision to Globalive only.
Not true at all. Plenty of businesses are allowed to operate in Canada despite being 100% foreign owned. The difference is that Wal-Mart isn't subject to CRTC regulation. They set up a Canadian division with a Canadian president and CEO, but Verizon could do that and still wouldn't be allowed to operate in Canada.The foreign ownership criteria is the same across the board.
Of course, and I know they looked for Canadian funding and couldn't find it in the scale they needed.My point is Wind knew it was not compliant from day 1. So would you not think it would be prudent knowing that a appeal was filed that you should become compliant?
I'm not sure as to which 'three' new entrants you are referring. If you mean Public and Mobile, they were done on much, much smaller scale and needed far less funding. If you're referring to Shaw and Videotron, they represent companies already established in the Canadian telecom sector and can use the funds and assets from their other divisions as the start up capital for their wireless divisions. And again, they're not on the same scale as Wind.How is it the other 3 entrants were able to abide by the rules and come to market?
If you want a better timeline, Wind found their call centres were at capacity before they launched in Vancouver, Ottawa, and Edmonton, so they hired a whole bunch of new CSRs. Following those launches they quickly realized that their one call centre wasn't nearly enough so they contracted the second call centre in Peterborough. Pleased with the results, when that one reached capacity they hoped to do the same thing only cheaper by contracting the Egyptian call centre. They aren't pleased with that one, and they're apparently now much more wary of contracted call centres, so they're now trying to add more in-house, but that takes much longer and they are already overloaded. Keep in mind that they're adding subs at a fairly high rate. I'm not saying they haven't made mistakes with the call centres, I'm saying these aren't the actions of a company on the verge of leaving.you said the call centers were swamped.. this was pre 100k thats a joke! the wait times are still insane.. so what had changed?
Followed by a list of the things they've accomplished and how they're not going away, it's all mostly fluff.Many of you have heard the news about the Federal Court's decision this past Friday. At WIND we are pretty used to taking on challenges and we will not shy away from this one. We will not be deterred by our competitors efforts to slow down our business. We have our actions to take to continue to bring competitive choice to Canadians. We plan on providing you great service at a great price for a long time.
Here are the facts of the situation: on Friday, the Federal Court released a decision concerning an application brought by our competitors, Public Mobile and Telus. The Court ruled that the Cabinet decision that confirmed our right to operate back in 2009 contained two errors and so should be quashed. This decision does not have any immediate impact on our customers – it’s business as usual for WIND as we resolve this in the Courts.
As a new entrant, this isn’t the first challenge that we’ve faced. We haven’t backed down when dealing with any of the challenges we’ve been confronted with since entering the auction for our wireless spectrum licenses in 2008, and we aren’t going to start now.
Was Globalive complaint - No, Yes, No - When CRTC made their decision - no; at the time the Cabinet made their decision - yes; at the time the Federal Court made their ruling - no. Legally, without any historical perspective they were never compliant, but you make a business decision on the facts at the time with assumptions for certain risk not a crystal ball.C
Was Globalive compliant? No
Should Globalive have been allowed to go to market.. No, they were not compliant.
Was it fair the other 3 entrants HAD to abide by the rules while Globalive did not? No
Was it fair that the bad room deal was made and then sealed so the details could be kept secret? No. So now that they have been found non compliant you want the laws to be changed? Colin really?