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1. In rabbit73 post #221, it appears the balun is flipped and further bumped out from the boom with a spacer

2. In addition, in the first picture showing the electrical connection at point B, its mentioned this is not the centered point between inner bays. However in the second picture showing the balun flipped, bumped out, and flat bar mounting, the electrical connection (would be point B,from above) still does not APPEAR centered

Is my understanding correct ?
 

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I believe rabbit said the effective electrical connection is point B in post #221, which is off center.

But you are saying when bumping out the balun, to place the bolt & spacer connection in the same hole where the rivet was (point A in post #221) :confused:


also, did you mod help

thank you
 

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each mod he did added significant increase, especially moving the balun way out, not sure if its recentred though, that was my original point....

EDIT: OK I think I got it now. thanks
 

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Has anyone tried hacking a CM4221HD into an optimized M4, say 9.5x9

Im wondering if its even possible, or worth the effort

It would involve moving the inner bays inwards by .5" each, and moving the outer bays out by .5" each....then changing out or lengthening all the bow-ties, and then the flat bars wouldnt match the phase lines of an M4 either....this I assume would be basically rebuilding the whole antenna...?
 

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has anyone modeled combining 2 x 4221HD's horizontally...

I tried this, and the gain in UHF appears very high (at 15 dbi - before deducting combiner loss), and VHF-Hi gain doesn't seem to make sense. It also appears much better that the 4228HD :confused:

I put the 2 - 4221HDs tip to tip on reflector rods

AGT is very difficult to adjust for 1.
 

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yes, using your 4228HD model, I had 11-16 dbi, NET, from 470-680 Mhz, before combiner loss.

with 2 x 4221HDs combined, I get 15-17 dbi, NET, from 470-680 Mhz, before combine loss - AGT is under control on UHF

I will check again, but that seems to be overestimating possible gain on UHF

On VHF-HI, I didnt fix AGT yet...

thanks for the tips

EDIT: well, my "hunting" has ended, at least for a while...the best AGT adjustment was +2 across VHF-HI...it seems impossible
 

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yes, also maybe because its a much wider reflector than the 4228HD

the 2 x 4221HDs are 23.6" apart, the 4228HD is 20" between bays

heres the nec file for VHF:

Code:
CM 2 x CM4221HD combined 8-Bay W 16 Reflector Rods, VHF-HI, 26 dec 2011
CE
GW	1	3	6.25	-0.59	0	6.25	0.59	0	0.15748031
GW	2	1	6.25	0.59	0	5.75	0.59	0	0.0815
GW	3	1	6.25	-0.59	0	5.75	-0.59	0	0.0815
GW	4	5	4.25	8.2404314	6.89	4.25	0.59	4.92	0.0815
GW	5	5	4.25	8.2404314	2.95	4.25	0.59	4.92	0.0815
GW	6	5	4.25	-0.59	4.92	4.25	-8.240431	6.89	0.0815
GW	7	5	4.25	-0.59	4.92	4.25	-8.240431	2.95	0.0815
GW	8	5	4.25	8.2404314	-6.89	4.25	0.59	-4.92	0.0815
GW	9	5	4.25	8.2404314	-2.95	4.25	0.59	-4.92	0.0815
GW	10	5	4.25	-0.59	-4.92	4.25	-8.240431	-6.89	0.0815
GW	11	5	4.25	-0.59	-4.92	4.25	-8.240431	-2.95	0.0815
GW	12	5	4.25	8.2404314	15.35	4.25	0.59	13.38	0.0815
GW	13	5	4.25	8.2404314	11.41	4.25	0.59	13.38	0.0815
GW	14	5	4.25	-0.59	13.38	4.25	-8.240431	15.35	0.0815
GW	15	5	4.25	-0.59	13.38	4.25	-8.240431	11.41	0.0815
GW	16	5	4.25	8.2404314	-15.35	4.25	0.59	-13.38	0.0815
GW	17	5	4.25	8.2404314	-11.41	4.25	0.59	-13.38	0.0815
GW	18	5	4.25	-0.59	-13.38	4.25	-8.240431	-15.35	0.0815
GW	19	5	4.25	-0.59	-13.38	4.25	-8.240431	-11.41	0.0815
GW	20	1	4.25	0.59	13.38	4.25	0.59	12.38	0.0595
GW	21	1	4.25	-0.59	13.38	4.25	-0.59	12.38	0.0595
GW	22	3	4.25	0.59	10.38	4.25	0.59	4.92	0.0595
GW	23	3	4.25	-0.59	10.38	4.25	-0.59	4.92	0.0595
GW	24	1	4.25	-0.59	10.38	4.65	0	11.38	0.0595
GW	25	1	4.25	0.59	12.38	4.65	0	11.38	0.0595
GW	26	1	4.25	0.59	10.38	3.85	0	11.38	0.0595
GW	27	1	4.25	-0.59	12.38	3.85	0	11.38	0.0595
GW	28	1	4.25	0.59	-13.38	4.25	0.59	-12.38	0.0595
GW	29	1	4.25	-0.59	-13.38	4.25	-0.59	-12.38	0.0595
GW	30	3	4.25	0.59	-10.38	4.25	0.59	-4.92	0.0595
GW	31	3	4.25	-0.59	-10.38	4.25	-0.59	-4.92	0.0595
GW	32	1	4.25	-0.59	-10.38	4.65	0	-11.38	0.0595
GW	33	1	4.25	0.59	-12.38	4.65	0	-11.38	0.0595
GW	34	1	4.25	0.59	-10.38	3.85	0	-11.38	0.0595
GW	35	1	4.25	-0.59	-12.38	3.85	0	-11.38	0.0595
GW	36	1	4.25	0.59	4.92	4.25	0.59	3.92	0.1875
GW	37	1	4.25	-0.59	4.92	4.25	-0.59	3.92	0.1875
GW	38	1	4.25	0.59	-4.92	4.25	0.59	-3.92	0.1875
GW	39	1	4.25	-0.59	-4.92	4.25	-0.59	-3.92	0.1875
GW	40	3	4.25	0.59	3.92	5.75	0.59	2.5	0.1875
GW	41	3	4.25	-0.59	3.92	5.75	-0.59	2.5	0.1875
GW	42	3	4.25	0.59	-3.92	5.75	0.59	-2.5	0.1875
GW	43	3	4.25	-0.59	-3.92	5.75	-0.59	-2.5	0.1875
GW	44	3	5.75	0.59	0	5.75	0.59	2.5	0.1875
GW	45	3	5.75	-0.59	0	5.75	-0.59	2.5	0.1875
GW	46	3	5.75	0.59	0	5.75	0.59	-2.5	0.1875
GW	47	3	5.75	-0.59	0	5.75	-0.59	-2.5	0.1875
GW	70	7	0	-11.8	2	0	0	2	0.0965
GW	71	7	0	0	2	0	11.8	2	0.0965
GW	72	7	0	-11.8	3.93	0	0	3.93	0.0965
GW	73	7	0	0	3.93	0	11.8	3.93	0.0965
GW	74	7	0	-11.8	5.86	0	0	5.86	0.0965
GW	75	7	0	0	5.86	0	11.8	5.86	0.0965
GW	76	7	0	-11.8	7.79	0	0	7.79	0.0965
GW	77	7	0	0	7.79	0	11.8	7.79	0.0965
GW	78	7	0	-11.8	9.72	0	0	9.72	0.0965
GW	79	7	0	0	9.72	0	11.8	9.72	0.0965
GW	80	7	0	-11.8	11.65	0	0	11.65	0.0965
GW	81	7	0	0	11.65	0	11.8	11.65	0.0965
GW	82	7	0	-11.8	13.58	0	0	13.58	0.0965
GW	83	7	0	0	13.58	0	11.8	13.58	0.0965
GW	84	7	0	-11.8	15.51	0	0	15.51	0.0965
GW	85	7	0	0	15.51	0	11.8	15.51	0.0965
GW	86	7	0	-11.8	-2	0	0	-2	0.0965
GW	87	7	0	0	-2	0	11.8	-2	0.0965
GW	88	7	0	-11.8	-3.93	0	0	-3.93	0.0965
GW	89	7	0	0	-3.93	0	11.8	-3.93	0.0965
GW	90	7	0	-11.8	-5.86	0	0	-5.86	0.0965
GW	91	7	0	0	-5.86	0	11.8	-5.86	0.0965
GW	92	7	0	-11.8	-7.79	0	0	-7.79	0.0965
GW	93	7	0	0	-7.79	0	11.8	-7.79	0.0965
GW	94	7	0	-11.8	-9.72	0	0	-9.72	0.0965
GW	95	7	0	0	-9.72	0	11.8	-9.72	0.0965
GW	96	7	0	-11.8	-11.65	0	0	-11.65	0.0965
GW	97	7	0	0	-11.65	0	11.8	-11.65	0.0965
GW	98	7	0	-11.8	-13.58	0	0	-13.58	0.0965
GW	99	7	0	0	-13.58	0	11.8	-13.58	0.0965
GW	100	7	0	-11.8	-15.51	0	0	-15.51	0.0965
GW	101	7	0	0	-15.51	0	11.8	-15.51	0.0965
GW	102	1	0	0	2	0	0	3.93	0.0965
GW	103	1	0	0	3.93	0	0	5.86	0.0965
GW	104	1	0	0	5.86	0	0	7.79	0.0965
GW	105	1	0	0	7.79	0	0	9.72	0.0965
GW	106	1	0	0	9.72	0	0	11.65	0.0965
GW	107	1	0	0	11.65	0	0	13.58	0.0965
GW	108	1	0	0	13.58	0	0	15.51	0.0965
GW	109	1	0	0	-2	0	0	-3.93	0.0965
GW	110	1	0	0	-3.93	0	0	-5.86	0.0965
GW	111	1	0	0	-5.86	0	0	-7.79	0.0965
GW	112	1	0	0	-7.79	0	0	-9.72	0.0965
GW	113	1	0	0	-9.72	0	0	-11.65	0.0965
GW	114	1	0	0	-11.65	0	0	-13.58	0.0965
GW	115	1	0	0	-13.58	0	0	-15.51	0.0965
GW	116	3	0	0	2	0	0	-2	0.0965
GW	117	3	6.25	-24.19	0	6.25	-23.01	0	0.15748031
GW	118	1	6.25	-23.01	0	5.75	-23.01	0	0.0815
GW	119	1	6.25	-24.19	0	5.75	-24.19	0	0.0815
GW	120	5	4.25	-15.359569	6.89	4.25	-23.01	4.92	0.0815
GW	121	5	4.25	-15.359569	2.95	4.25	-23.01	4.92	0.0815
GW	122	5	4.25	-24.19	4.92	4.25	-31.840431	6.89	0.0815
GW	123	5	4.25	-24.19	4.92	4.25	-31.840431	2.95	0.0815
GW	124	5	4.25	-15.359569	-6.89	4.25	-23.01	-4.92	0.0815
GW	125	5	4.25	-15.359569	-2.95	4.25	-23.01	-4.92	0.0815
GW	126	5	4.25	-24.19	-4.92	4.25	-31.840431	-6.89	0.0815
GW	127	5	4.25	-24.19	-4.92	4.25	-31.840431	-2.95	0.0815
GW	128	5	4.25	-15.359569	15.35	4.25	-23.01	13.38	0.0815
GW	129	5	4.25	-15.359569	11.41	4.25	-23.01	13.38	0.0815
GW	130	5	4.25	-24.19	13.38	4.25	-31.840431	15.35	0.0815
GW	131	5	4.25	-24.19	13.38	4.25	-31.840431	11.41	0.0815
GW	132	5	4.25	-15.359569	-15.35	4.25	-23.01	-13.38	0.0815
GW	133	5	4.25	-15.359569	-11.41	4.25	-23.01	-13.38	0.0815
GW	134	5	4.25	-24.19	-13.38	4.25	-31.840431	-15.35	0.0815
GW	135	5	4.25	-24.19	-13.38	4.25	-31.840431	-11.41	0.0815
GW	136	1	4.25	-23.01	13.38	4.25	-23.01	12.38	0.0595
GW	137	1	4.25	-24.19	13.38	4.25	-24.19	12.38	0.0595
GW	138	3	4.25	-23.01	10.38	4.25	-23.01	4.92	0.0595
GW	139	3	4.25	-24.19	10.38	4.25	-24.19	4.92	0.0595
GW	140	1	4.25	-24.19	10.38	4.65	-23.6	11.38	0.0595
GW	141	1	4.25	-23.01	12.38	4.65	-23.6	11.38	0.0595
GW	142	1	4.25	-23.01	10.38	3.85	-23.6	11.38	0.0595
GW	143	1	4.25	-24.19	12.38	3.85	-23.6	11.38	0.0595
GW	144	1	4.25	-23.01	-13.38	4.25	-23.01	-12.38	0.0595
GW	145	1	4.25	-24.19	-13.38	4.25	-24.19	-12.38	0.0595
GW	146	3	4.25	-23.01	-10.38	4.25	-23.01	-4.92	0.0595
GW	147	3	4.25	-24.19	-10.38	4.25	-24.19	-4.92	0.0595
GW	148	1	4.25	-24.19	-10.38	4.65	-23.6	-11.38	0.0595
GW	149	1	4.25	-23.01	-12.38	4.65	-23.6	-11.38	0.0595
GW	150	1	4.25	-23.01	-10.38	3.85	-23.6	-11.38	0.0595
GW	151	1	4.25	-24.19	-12.38	3.85	-23.6	-11.38	0.0595
GW	152	1	4.25	-23.01	4.92	4.25	-23.01	3.92	0.1875
GW	153	1	4.25	-24.19	4.92	4.25	-24.19	3.92	0.1875
GW	154	1	4.25	-23.01	-4.92	4.25	-23.01	-3.92	0.1875
GW	155	1	4.25	-24.19	-4.92	4.25	-24.19	-3.92	0.1875
GW	156	3	4.25	-23.01	3.92	5.75	-23.01	2.5	0.1875
GW	157	3	4.25	-24.19	3.92	5.75	-24.19	2.5	0.1875
GW	158	3	4.25	-23.01	-3.92	5.75	-23.01	-2.5	0.1875
GW	159	3	4.25	-24.19	-3.92	5.75	-24.19	-2.5	0.1875
GW	160	3	5.75	-23.01	0	5.75	-23.01	2.5	0.1875
GW	161	3	5.75	-24.19	0	5.75	-24.19	2.5	0.1875
GW	162	3	5.75	-23.01	0	5.75	-23.01	-2.5	0.1875
GW	163	3	5.75	-24.19	0	5.75	-24.19	-2.5	0.1875
GW	164	7	0	-35.4	2	0	-23.6	2	0.0965
GW	165	7	0	-23.6	2	0	-11.8	2	0.0965
GW	166	7	0	-35.4	3.93	0	-23.6	3.93	0.0965
GW	167	7	0	-23.6	3.93	0	-11.8	3.93	0.0965
GW	168	7	0	-35.4	5.86	0	-23.6	5.86	0.0965
GW	169	7	0	-23.6	5.86	0	-11.8	5.86	0.0965
GW	170	7	0	-35.4	7.79	0	-23.6	7.79	0.0965
GW	171	7	0	-23.6	7.79	0	-11.8	7.79	0.0965
GW	172	7	0	-35.4	9.72	0	-23.6	9.72	0.0965
GW	173	7	0	-23.6	9.72	0	-11.8	9.72	0.0965
GW	174	7	0	-35.4	11.65	0	-23.6	11.65	0.0965
GW	175	7	0	-23.6	11.65	0	-11.8	11.65	0.0965
GW	176	7	0	-35.4	13.58	0	-23.6	13.58	0.0965
GW	177	7	0	-23.6	13.58	0	-11.8	13.58	0.0965
GW	178	7	0	-35.4	15.51	0	-23.6	15.51	0.0965
GW	179	7	0	-23.6	15.51	0	-11.8	15.51	0.0965
GW	180	7	0	-35.4	-2	0	-23.6	-2	0.0965
GW	181	7	0	-23.6	-2	0	-11.8	-2	0.0965
GW	182	7	0	-35.4	-3.93	0	-23.6	-3.93	0.0965
GW	183	7	0	-23.6	-3.93	0	-11.8	-3.93	0.0965
GW	184	7	0	-35.4	-5.86	0	-23.6	-5.86	0.0965
GW	185	7	0	-23.6	-5.86	0	-11.8	-5.86	0.0965
GW	186	7	0	-35.4	-7.79	0	-23.6	-7.79	0.0965
GW	187	7	0	-23.6	-7.79	0	-11.8	-7.79	0.0965
GW	188	7	0	-35.4	-9.72	0	-23.6	-9.72	0.0965
GW	189	7	0	-23.6	-9.72	0	-11.8	-9.72	0.0965
GW	190	7	0	-35.4	-11.65	0	-23.6	-11.65	0.0965
GW	191	7	0	-23.6	-11.65	0	-11.8	-11.65	0.0965
GW	192	7	0	-35.4	-13.58	0	-23.6	-13.58	0.0965
GW	193	7	0	-23.6	-13.58	0	-11.8	-13.58	0.0965
GW	194	7	0	-35.4	-15.51	0	-23.6	-15.51	0.0965
GW	195	7	0	-23.6	-15.51	0	-11.8	-15.51	0.0965
GW	196	1	0	-23.6	2	0	-23.6	3.93	0.0965
GW	197	1	0	-23.6	3.93	0	-23.6	5.86	0.0965
GW	198	1	0	-23.6	5.86	0	-23.6	7.79	0.0965
GW	199	1	0	-23.6	7.79	0	-23.6	9.72	0.0965
GW	200	1	0	-23.6	9.72	0	-23.6	11.65	0.0965
GW	201	1	0	-23.6	11.65	0	-23.6	13.58	0.0965
GW	202	1	0	-23.6	13.58	0	-23.6	15.51	0.0965
GW	203	1	0	-23.6	-2	0	-23.6	-3.93	0.0965
GW	204	1	0	-23.6	-3.93	0	-23.6	-5.86	0.0965
GW	205	1	0	-23.6	-5.86	0	-23.6	-7.79	0.0965
GW	206	1	0	-23.6	-7.79	0	-23.6	-9.72	0.0965
GW	207	1	0	-23.6	-9.72	0	-23.6	-11.65	0.0965
GW	208	1	0	-23.6	-11.65	0	-23.6	-13.58	0.0965
GW	209	1	0	-23.6	-13.58	0	-23.6	-15.51	0.0965
GW	210	3	0	-23.6	2	0	-23.6	-2	0.0965
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
LD	5	0	0	0	1.67e7	0
EX	0	1	2	0	1	0
EX	0	117	2	0	1	0
GN	-1
FR	0	8	0	0	174	6
RP	0	1	73	1510	90	0	1	5	0	0
 

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2,421 Posts
AGT bracketed values are RED, so I thought that meant the model needs to be corrected more, before even considering using the values to correct the gain :confused:

so in this case, 2 x 4221HDs is useless in term of net VHF-Hi gain, wheras the 4228HD is excellent.

EDIT: to get the AGT to work the reflectors needs to be separated (not touching, say by 1"), then AGT is corrected and a little gain is lost on lo UHF....I think

EDIT: OR the outer reflector rods of each unit, need to be made a single, continuous rods in the model, going from center of one unit to center of the other...


heres the file for 1" separation between reflector rods, NET gain is more than 14-17 dbi from 470 Mhz to 680 Mhz, Hi VHF-HI is mediocre, but decent at 213 Mhz - if the models are correct this means it beats any other 8-bay, hacked or not, and its cheaper also - of course more work is involved in supporting the combination structure

Code:
CM 2 x CM4221HD combined 8-Bay W 16 Reflector Rods, VHF-HI, 26 dec 2011, 1" separation between ref rods
CE
GW	1	1	6.25	-0.59	0	6.25	0.59	0	0.11811024
GW	2	1	6.25	0.59	0	5.75	0.59	0	0.0815
GW	3	1	6.25	-0.59	0	5.75	-0.59	0	0.0815
GW	4	5	4.25	8.2404314	6.89	4.25	0.59	4.92	0.0815
GW	5	5	4.25	8.2404314	2.95	4.25	0.59	4.92	0.0815
GW	6	5	4.25	-0.59	4.92	4.25	-8.240431	6.89	0.0815
GW	7	5	4.25	-0.59	4.92	4.25	-8.240431	2.95	0.0815
GW	8	5	4.25	8.2404314	-6.89	4.25	0.59	-4.92	0.0815
GW	9	5	4.25	8.2404314	-2.95	4.25	0.59	-4.92	0.0815
GW	10	5	4.25	-0.59	-4.92	4.25	-8.240431	-6.89	0.0815
GW	11	5	4.25	-0.59	-4.92	4.25	-8.240431	-2.95	0.0815
GW	12	5	4.25	8.2404314	15.35	4.25	0.59	13.38	0.0815
GW	13	5	4.25	8.2404314	11.41	4.25	0.59	13.38	0.0815
GW	14	5	4.25	-0.59	13.38	4.25	-8.240431	15.35	0.0815
GW	15	5	4.25	-0.59	13.38	4.25	-8.240431	11.41	0.0815
GW	16	5	4.25	8.2404314	-15.35	4.25	0.59	-13.38	0.0815
GW	17	5	4.25	8.2404314	-11.41	4.25	0.59	-13.38	0.0815
GW	18	5	4.25	-0.59	-13.38	4.25	-8.240431	-15.35	0.0815
GW	19	5	4.25	-0.59	-13.38	4.25	-8.240431	-11.41	0.0815
GW	20	1	4.25	0.59	13.38	4.25	0.59	12.38	0.0595
GW	21	1	4.25	-0.59	13.38	4.25	-0.59	12.38	0.0595
GW	22	6	4.25	0.59	10.38	4.25	0.59	4.92	0.0595
GW	23	6	4.25	-0.59	10.38	4.25	-0.59	4.92	0.0595
GW	24	1	4.25	-0.59	10.38	4.65	0	11.38	0.0595
GW	25	1	4.25	0.59	12.38	4.65	0	11.38	0.0595
GW	26	1	4.25	0.59	10.38	3.85	0	11.38	0.0595
GW	27	1	4.25	-0.59	12.38	3.85	0	11.38	0.0595
GW	28	1	4.25	0.59	-13.38	4.25	0.59	-12.38	0.0595
GW	29	1	4.25	-0.59	-13.38	4.25	-0.59	-12.38	0.0595
GW	30	6	4.25	0.59	-10.38	4.25	0.59	-4.92	0.0595
GW	31	6	4.25	-0.59	-10.38	4.25	-0.59	-4.92	0.0595
GW	32	1	4.25	-0.59	-10.38	4.65	0	-11.38	0.0595
GW	33	1	4.25	0.59	-12.38	4.65	0	-11.38	0.0595
GW	34	1	4.25	0.59	-10.38	3.85	0	-11.38	0.0595
GW	35	1	4.25	-0.59	-12.38	3.85	0	-11.38	0.0595
GW	36	1	4.25	0.59	4.92	4.25	0.59	3.92	0.1875
GW	37	1	4.25	-0.59	4.92	4.25	-0.59	3.92	0.1875
GW	38	1	4.25	0.59	-4.92	4.25	0.59	-3.92	0.1875
GW	39	1	4.25	-0.59	-4.92	4.25	-0.59	-3.92	0.1875
GW	40	3	4.25	0.59	3.92	5.75	0.59	2.5	0.1875
GW	41	3	4.25	-0.59	3.92	5.75	-0.59	2.5	0.1875
GW	42	3	4.25	0.59	-3.92	5.75	0.59	-2.5	0.1875
GW	43	3	4.25	-0.59	-3.92	5.75	-0.59	-2.5	0.1875
GW	44	3	5.75	0.59	0	5.75	0.59	2.5	0.1875
GW	45	3	5.75	-0.59	0	5.75	-0.59	2.5	0.1875
GW	46	3	5.75	0.59	0	5.75	0.59	-2.5	0.1875
GW	47	3	5.75	-0.59	0	5.75	-0.59	-2.5	0.1875
GW	70	5	0	-11.8	2	0	0	2	0.0965
GW	71	5	0	0	2	0	11.8	2	0.0965
GW	72	5	0	-11.8	3.93	0	0	3.93	0.0965
GW	73	5	0	0	3.93	0	11.8	3.93	0.0965
GW	74	5	0	-11.8	5.86	0	0	5.86	0.0965
GW	75	5	0	0	5.86	0	11.8	5.86	0.0965
GW	76	5	0	-11.8	7.79	0	0	7.79	0.0965
GW	77	5	0	0	7.79	0	11.8	7.79	0.0965
GW	78	5	0	-11.8	9.72	0	0	9.72	0.0965
GW	79	5	0	0	9.72	0	11.8	9.72	0.0965
GW	80	5	0	-11.8	11.65	0	0	11.65	0.0965
GW	81	5	0	0	11.65	0	11.8	11.65	0.0965
GW	82	5	0	-11.8	13.58	0	0	13.58	0.0965
GW	83	5	0	0	13.58	0	11.8	13.58	0.0965
GW	84	5	0	-11.8	15.51	0	0	15.51	0.0965
GW	85	5	0	0	15.51	0	11.8	15.51	0.0965
GW	86	5	0	-11.8	-2	0	0	-2	0.0965
GW	87	5	0	0	-2	0	11.8	-2	0.0965
GW	88	5	0	-11.8	-3.93	0	0	-3.93	0.0965
GW	89	5	0	0	-3.93	0	11.8	-3.93	0.0965
GW	90	5	0	-11.8	-5.86	0	0	-5.86	0.0965
GW	91	5	0	0	-5.86	0	11.8	-5.86	0.0965
GW	92	5	0	-11.8	-7.79	0	0	-7.79	0.0965
GW	93	5	0	0	-7.79	0	11.8	-7.79	0.0965
GW	94	5	0	-11.8	-9.72	0	0	-9.72	0.0965
GW	95	5	0	0	-9.72	0	11.8	-9.72	0.0965
GW	96	5	0	-11.8	-11.65	0	0	-11.65	0.0965
GW	97	5	0	0	-11.65	0	11.8	-11.65	0.0965
GW	98	5	0	-11.8	-13.58	0	0	-13.58	0.0965
GW	99	5	0	0	-13.58	0	11.8	-13.58	0.0965
GW	100	5	0	-11.8	-15.51	0	0	-15.51	0.0965
GW	101	5	0	0	-15.51	0	11.8	-15.51	0.0965
GW	102	1	0	0	2	0	0	3.93	0.0965
GW	103	1	0	0	3.93	0	0	5.86	0.0965
GW	104	1	0	0	5.86	0	0	7.79	0.0965
GW	105	1	0	0	7.79	0	0	9.72	0.0965
GW	106	1	0	0	9.72	0	0	11.65	0.0965
GW	107	1	0	0	11.65	0	0	13.58	0.0965
GW	108	1	0	0	13.58	0	0	15.51	0.0965
GW	109	1	0	0	-2	0	0	-3.93	0.0965
GW	110	1	0	0	-3.93	0	0	-5.86	0.0965
GW	111	1	0	0	-5.86	0	0	-7.79	0.0965
GW	112	1	0	0	-7.79	0	0	-9.72	0.0965
GW	113	1	0	0	-9.72	0	0	-11.65	0.0965
GW	114	1	0	0	-11.65	0	0	-13.58	0.0965
GW	115	1	0	0	-13.58	0	0	-15.51	0.0965
GW	116	3	0	0	2	0	0	-2	0.0965
GW	117	1	6.25	-25.19	0	6.25	-24.01	0	0.11811024
GW	118	1	6.25	-24.01	0	5.75	-24.01	0	0.0815
GW	119	1	6.25	-25.19	0	5.75	-25.19	0	0.0815
GW	120	5	4.25	-16.359569	6.89	4.25	-24.01	4.92	0.0815
GW	121	5	4.25	-16.359569	2.95	4.25	-24.01	4.92	0.0815
GW	122	5	4.25	-25.19	4.92	4.25	-32.840431	6.89	0.0815
GW	123	5	4.25	-25.19	4.92	4.25	-32.840431	2.95	0.0815
GW	124	5	4.25	-16.359569	-6.89	4.25	-24.01	-4.92	0.0815
GW	125	5	4.25	-16.359569	-2.95	4.25	-24.01	-4.92	0.0815
GW	126	5	4.25	-25.19	-4.92	4.25	-32.840431	-6.89	0.0815
GW	127	5	4.25	-25.19	-4.92	4.25	-32.840431	-2.95	0.0815
GW	128	5	4.25	-16.359569	15.35	4.25	-24.01	13.38	0.0815
GW	129	5	4.25	-16.359569	11.41	4.25	-24.01	13.38	0.0815
GW	130	5	4.25	-25.19	13.38	4.25	-32.840431	15.35	0.0815
GW	131	5	4.25	-25.19	13.38	4.25	-32.840431	11.41	0.0815
GW	132	5	4.25	-16.359569	-15.35	4.25	-24.01	-13.38	0.0815
GW	133	5	4.25	-16.359569	-11.41	4.25	-24.01	-13.38	0.0815
GW	134	5	4.25	-25.19	-13.38	4.25	-32.840431	-15.35	0.0815
GW	135	5	4.25	-25.19	-13.38	4.25	-32.840431	-11.41	0.0815
GW	136	1	4.25	-24.01	13.38	4.25	-24.01	12.38	0.0595
GW	137	1	4.25	-25.19	13.38	4.25	-25.19	12.38	0.0595
GW	138	6	4.25	-24.01	10.38	4.25	-24.01	4.92	0.0595
GW	139	6	4.25	-25.19	10.38	4.25	-25.19	4.92	0.0595
GW	140	1	4.25	-25.19	10.38	4.65	-24.6	11.38	0.0595
GW	141	1	4.25	-24.01	12.38	4.65	-24.6	11.38	0.0595
GW	142	1	4.25	-24.01	10.38	3.85	-24.6	11.38	0.0595
GW	143	1	4.25	-25.19	12.38	3.85	-24.6	11.38	0.0595
GW	144	1	4.25	-24.01	-13.38	4.25	-24.01	-12.38	0.0595
GW	145	1	4.25	-25.19	-13.38	4.25	-25.19	-12.38	0.0595
GW	146	6	4.25	-24.01	-10.38	4.25	-24.01	-4.92	0.0595
GW	147	6	4.25	-25.19	-10.38	4.25	-25.19	-4.92	0.0595
GW	148	1	4.25	-25.19	-10.38	4.65	-24.6	-11.38	0.0595
GW	149	1	4.25	-24.01	-12.38	4.65	-24.6	-11.38	0.0595
GW	150	1	4.25	-24.01	-10.38	3.85	-24.6	-11.38	0.0595
GW	151	1	4.25	-25.19	-12.38	3.85	-24.6	-11.38	0.0595
GW	152	1	4.25	-24.01	4.92	4.25	-24.01	3.92	0.1875
GW	153	1	4.25	-25.19	4.92	4.25	-25.19	3.92	0.1875
GW	154	1	4.25	-24.01	-4.92	4.25	-24.01	-3.92	0.1875
GW	155	1	4.25	-25.19	-4.92	4.25	-25.19	-3.92	0.1875
GW	156	3	4.25	-24.01	3.92	5.75	-24.01	2.5	0.1875
GW	157	3	4.25	-25.19	3.92	5.75	-25.19	2.5	0.1875
GW	158	3	4.25	-24.01	-3.92	5.75	-24.01	-2.5	0.1875
GW	159	3	4.25	-25.19	-3.92	5.75	-25.19	-2.5	0.1875
GW	160	3	5.75	-24.01	0	5.75	-24.01	2.5	0.1875
GW	161	3	5.75	-25.19	0	5.75	-25.19	2.5	0.1875
GW	162	3	5.75	-24.01	0	5.75	-24.01	-2.5	0.1875
GW	163	3	5.75	-25.19	0	5.75	-25.19	-2.5	0.1875
GW	164	5	0	-36.4	2	0	-24.6	2	0.0965
GW	165	5	0	-24.6	2	0	-12.8	2	0.0965
GW	166	5	0	-36.4	3.93	0	-24.6	3.93	0.0965
GW	167	5	0	-24.6	3.93	0	-12.8	3.93	0.0965
GW	168	5	0	-36.4	5.86	0	-24.6	5.86	0.0965
GW	169	5	0	-24.6	5.86	0	-12.8	5.86	0.0965
GW	170	5	0	-36.4	7.79	0	-24.6	7.79	0.0965
GW	171	5	0	-24.6	7.79	0	-12.8	7.79	0.0965
GW	172	5	0	-36.4	9.72	0	-24.6	9.72	0.0965
GW	173	5	0	-24.6	9.72	0	-12.8	9.72	0.0965
GW	174	5	0	-36.4	11.65	0	-24.6	11.65	0.0965
GW	175	5	0	-24.6	11.65	0	-12.8	11.65	0.0965
GW	176	5	0	-36.4	13.58	0	-24.6	13.58	0.0965
GW	177	5	0	-24.6	13.58	0	-12.8	13.58	0.0965
GW	178	5	0	-36.4	15.51	0	-24.6	15.51	0.0965
GW	179	5	0	-24.6	15.51	0	-12.8	15.51	0.0965
GW	180	5	0	-36.4	-2	0	-24.6	-2	0.0965
GW	181	5	0	-24.6	-2	0	-12.8	-2	0.0965
GW	182	5	0	-36.4	-3.93	0	-24.6	-3.93	0.0965
GW	183	5	0	-24.6	-3.93	0	-12.8	-3.93	0.0965
GW	184	5	0	-36.4	-5.86	0	-24.6	-5.86	0.0965
GW	185	5	0	-24.6	-5.86	0	-12.8	-5.86	0.0965
GW	186	5	0	-36.4	-7.79	0	-24.6	-7.79	0.0965
GW	187	5	0	-24.6	-7.79	0	-12.8	-7.79	0.0965
GW	188	5	0	-36.4	-9.72	0	-24.6	-9.72	0.0965
GW	189	5	0	-24.6	-9.72	0	-12.8	-9.72	0.0965
GW	190	5	0	-36.4	-11.65	0	-24.6	-11.65	0.0965
GW	191	5	0	-24.6	-11.65	0	-12.8	-11.65	0.0965
GW	192	5	0	-36.4	-13.58	0	-24.6	-13.58	0.0965
GW	193	5	0	-24.6	-13.58	0	-12.8	-13.58	0.0965
GW	194	5	0	-36.4	-15.51	0	-24.6	-15.51	0.0965
GW	195	5	0	-24.6	-15.51	0	-12.8	-15.51	0.0965
GW	196	1	0	-24.6	2	0	-24.6	3.93	0.0965
GW	197	1	0	-24.6	3.93	0	-24.6	5.86	0.0965
GW	198	1	0	-24.6	5.86	0	-24.6	7.79	0.0965
GW	199	1	0	-24.6	7.79	0	-24.6	9.72	0.0965
GW	200	1	0	-24.6	9.72	0	-24.6	11.65	0.0965
GW	201	1	0	-24.6	11.65	0	-24.6	13.58	0.0965
GW	202	1	0	-24.6	13.58	0	-24.6	15.51	0.0965
GW	203	1	0	-24.6	-2	0	-24.6	-3.93	0.0965
GW	204	1	0	-24.6	-3.93	0	-24.6	-5.86	0.0965
GW	205	1	0	-24.6	-5.86	0	-24.6	-7.79	0.0965
GW	206	1	0	-24.6	-7.79	0	-24.6	-9.72	0.0965
GW	207	1	0	-24.6	-9.72	0	-24.6	-11.65	0.0965
GW	208	1	0	-24.6	-11.65	0	-24.6	-13.58	0.0965
GW	209	1	0	-24.6	-13.58	0	-24.6	-15.51	0.0965
GW	210	3	0	-24.6	2	0	-24.6	-2	0.0965
GS	0	0	0.0254		' All in in.
GE	0
EK
LD	5	0	0	0	1.67e7	0
EX	0	1	1	0	1	0
EX	0	117	1	0	1	0
GN	-1
'FR	0	8	0	0	174	6
FR	0	36	0	0	470	6
RP 0 1 73 1510 90 0 1 5 0 0
 

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2,421 Posts
holl_ands, thanks for fixing that file ...looks like I was overestimating low UHF, and underestimating mid-high UHF...

still, pretty decent results

as for the wire configurations and wire radii (not at the balun), I believe I used the same data as in you model of the 4221HD (unchanged radii) ;)

I just took 2 of the 4221HDs as they were, and made the screens touch

it looks like your using separated reflector screens, similar to what I did in post #315



another idea might be to reduce tine separation to 2"



BTW, I CANNOT run your new 4211HD combined model...I get parser, constant, token errors, then I have to crash the program to get out...I thought it had to do with the quote/spacer markers, but after removing all comments, I have the same problem

EDIT: OK, tags #90 to #95 (reflector rods) got mangled out of position, and the radii got truncated to zero, in the opening of the file (I guess) - anyway I fixed it in my file

thanks
 

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2,421 Posts
I'm not sure if the EXACT detail of the "bumped out" Rabbit73 balun modification was modeled, or more importantly if it made any difference in the model results as compared to JUST the balun flip mod ? just curious.

Thanks
 

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2,421 Posts
Is there a reliable way of simply extending the CM4221HD whiskers to 9" long. I put an ALMOST perfectly fitting 3/16" aluminum tubing over the ends but I have not yet figured a way to fasten it solidly to the whiskers (its not quite tight enough to hold on its own)

So maybe some sort of glue that withstands outdoors ???, but then I assumed it would change the surface area properties and affect the antenna performance ...???
 
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