Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

221 - 240 of 287 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,890 Posts
hi dmgd, and welcome to the forum...

Attic installs are always hit or miss...
couple of questions... several actually, more to get ya thinking...
how long of a run for a down lead are you planning for and how many tuners?

Around here, just south of Buffalo, I recall my first antenna build (2009??) I had stuck in my attic as a test, and was immediately disappointed with the results. So I put it up outside on the chimney instead. Was much better then. Doesn't mean you won't be happy
though...

A few variables I can think of that may impact your attic install, in no particular order...
# of layers and type of shingle on the roof presently??
Type of siding...vinyl, aluminum, wood or brick?
The direction of the transmitters (~240 degrees) would be going through the siding or roof? Is the attic level unobstructed? Meaning are there other homes about the same height nearby (City/Suburban) that would obstruct the view to the horizon, or is the home in a wide open area all by itself (more rural)...Lots of Trees higher than the home nearby?
There's probably more variables but there's a few to help get ya thinking.

Given none of the transmitters in your area are on VHF, I would probably try a 4 bay bowtie type antenna
like Antennas Direct DB4e,or a Channelmaster CM 4221HD. Either should fit in an attic, and should be able to be moved around a bit or
mounted outside if the attic didn't work out.
Worth mentioning is that Antennas Direct backs up their products with a lifetime warranty and very good support. So
that's part of what your paying for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Jericho, Vermont: which antenna design?

OK, so I understand there is no "perfect" antenna design.

I also understand that what works for one person may not work for another just because of location.

I have read dozens of posts and been to just as many web sites.

It seems everyone has an opinion ... bow tie, hoverman, folded dipole, .... people can't even agree on one or two bays ( 3 db gain with two bays but then loose 3.5 with a "splitter/combiner").

So, someone like me is lost.

I live in VT (already done the channel search see link below ... just FYI, born and raised in Welland Ontario).

I need something that will hold up outside in ice and snow (no foil reflector).

If there is no "best" design, is there a "most likely to work" design?

I have a $35 Winegard up right now, no amplifier. I can see three of transmitting towers (LOS ... EAST) and am receiving those stations off the back of the antenna. They are 8.5 miles away.

The antenna is aimed West and I am getting one station 46 miles away 2 edge.

At a minimum, I would like a better antenna since I loose some of the stations I am getting off the back of the antenna once in a while.

What I really want is the impossible .... a Canadian station 75 miles north 2 edge .... probably impossible.

So, my main stations are 8.5 miles east (most of them) and 46 miles west (completely opposite).

I want to receive stations 75 miles north and there are a few south that I "might" get ... but probably too far away.

Oh forgot to mention, I am in a hole (valley). The only reason I can see the towers is that they are on top of the mountain that I am looking at.

WOW .... lot to take in.

So I am totally lost!

I am thinking anything I build should be better than a $34 home depot antenna.

Everything I look at with a reflector has no gain in reverse ( thought I only need to get 8.5 miles LOS ).

If I aim something west ( like I have now ), there will be no chance of getting the Canadian channels to the north.

I have read all the nightmares of trying to hook up two antennas even if they are aimed in opposite directions.

HELP!

What antenna design should I try and what direction do I aim it?

Here is my channel search: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...5134375956524e

Right now I get 3/5/33/22/44/57 ( funny since the antenna is aimed at 57 the rest are off the back of the antenna).

Thanks so much ...... Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,890 Posts
Hi Mike,
Welcome to the forum.
Unfortunately it seems the forum trashed your tvfool link.
Can you try posting it again?

If you click on "today's posts" under Quick Links, after ya repost it, you should be able to see your post again to confirm it worked.

Additionally, as an example...if you click on my nickname, View Public Profile, Contact info, you will see where I entered mine, under Homepage in my User Control Panel Settings. If ya do it that way, any time someone is curious of your location in the course of any
other discussion, they can just reference that homepage link rather than requesting you to post your tvfool everytime it comes up in every
thread you post in.

For my location on UHF I just use a single bay Grey Hoverman with no reflectors(thus a bi-directional pattern). So I can get Buffalo Locals,
WPJX from Batavia (about 40 miles East), the Fonthill CKVP (CKVR repeater), CITS and some of the stronger Toronto stations (60+ miles Northwest), using a rotor here for UHF as well. For VHF I use a small Yagi, on a fixed Azimuth aimed at the CN Tower just for CFTO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Link reposted ....

Thanks for the quick reply!

Here is the link again:

TV Fool

I am in Jericho, Vermont ... about an 1 1/2 hours from Montreal.

Your antenna is very impressive!

I actually did very well when I lived in Welland. I could pick up all the Buffalo station, along with Hamilton and Toronto.

Vermont I very, very rural ( our largest city only has 42,000 people ).

I miss my Canadian TV and was hoping (although I know it is unlikely) that I might pick up a few Canadian stations.

If I drive just a bit closer to the boarder in my RV, I can pick them up with ease. That is amazing considering I am still using the original Winegard antenna with a converter running the original TV ( antenna and tv now 17 years old).

Thanks ...... Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,890 Posts
HI MIke,
Sorry, but I see this message in your tvfool report. Given that Vermont likely has some rough terrain, for best accuracy, please enter your exact address, or enter the exact location in terms of lat/long coordinates. No need to worry about privacy.Your exact location won't be visible to anyone but you when viewing the report.

WARNING: Address was only resolved to block level and might not be that close to your actual location. For more accurate results, try entering a specific address or coordinates.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
I did enter the exact address.

Here is the link again: TV Fool

Latitude +44.5112219
Longitude -72.9796742

I am in a "hole" ... at the lowest part of a valley.

I can actually see the local transmission towers ... 8.5 miles away ... at about 4,000 ft. They are so close that as I said, I am actually receiving all but one of my stations off the back of the antenna. I am at an elevation of 630 ft. Like I said, in a hole.

Again, I understand that since I am not LOS of most stations, I may not get any more than I get now.

Maybe just my "toy" antenna with an amplifier may be good enough ( I just keep loosing the pbs channels ... 33).

I don't mind "tinkering" though and trying to see if I can get a few more stations.

I am just confused what antenna design I should try ... or which design is "most likely" to get better reception with.

Thanks so much again ..... Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Splitting Losses - Need Amplifier Help in Baltimore, MD area

A little background-

Currently have a YA-1713 for VHF and a MXU-59 for UHF. Both about 25' off the ground. Live in an area between Harrisburg PA, Baltimore MD , and Washington DC. I have an antenna rotator and the antennas are feeding through a CM 7777 Pre-Amp and about 100' of RG-6. Reception is fair. The majors come in pretty well. (Except CBS-13 and ABC-2 (Real 38) out of Baltimore since I am behind a large hill) I am in Baltimore DMA.

All DC channels are fair to strong due to geography. All PA channels are good.

I recently cancelled my DirecTV and tried splitting the antenna feed to 3 separate TVs. Now the signals are weak and channels that came in previously on the single line no longer come in reliably. The strongest channels are still fine, but the ones that were iffy or low signal before are now gone completely. I attribute this to insertion loss from the 4-way splitter combined with longer cable runs (50'+).

My question to the folks here is how to fix? IS there are better setup for the pre-amp. Or should I add a distribution amp behind the pre-amp? I have been looking at some with 4 outputs as that would (theoretically) take care of the insertion loss from the splitter. Or would I be better to get a single output distribution amp and put it after the pre-amp but before the splitter? I haven't gotten to comparing noise levels of the different distribution amps yet. Any recommendations?

TIA
 

·
OTA Forum Moderator
Joined
·
24,867 Posts
Classic case

wmshay6 that is a classic case of insertion losses exceeding the available signal. You are correct that the splitter and the added coax are causing the problem, so debugging this will not be hard.

Your preamp is excellent, so as long as it is being overwhelmed by the insertion losses there is hope. If you can crimp the ends on every coax lead yourself or get someone to do that I'd say that's the place to start, eliminating every last foot of extra cabling on every run (apart from a slight bit extra for sensible flexibility and outdoor drip loops) including the downlead from the preamp if that is not already the case. Don't go up there unless you really, really have to.

Another tip: do your testing/optimizing on the TV that is farthest from the antenna, cabling-wise. That way when you get it up to proper signal level all the others will already be done. Also we have a separate thread covering splitters so please check through it to see if the one you're using is a recommended model.

If the problems still persist after that, at least you cheaply lowered the threshold for how much signal is required with the above methods. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Here's the TV Fool:
TV Fool

My problem isn't so much what I am getting. I am pretty much maxed out given the conditions. My concern is that a lot drops out when fed through a splitter to feed 3 tv sets. I removed the 4 way tonight and reinstalled a Holland 2 way- things are much improved.

So I will look into powered 4 way spltter to overcome the insertion loss as it seems that is the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
No- there wasn't an open port. The spliiter was between the Pre-Amp and it's power supply, so the 4th port was used to pass power to the pre-amp.
 

·
OTA Forum Moderator
Joined
·
24,867 Posts
Does that splitter allow DC Power Pass on all ports? If you have a multimeter you can check that. If not, you have a show-stopper right there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Thanks for the help

Thanks for all the help everyone. I added the distribution amp (CM 4212) and that has helped dramatically.

My signals aren't great, so I was a little concerned about inserting excessive noise into the equation after the pre-amp. But so far, so good. It looks like the 4 way splitter just degraded the low power signal too much and put me over the cliff.

One output of the 4212 goes to my longest cable run and the other split between two fairly short runs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
seperate Vhf/Uhf preamp inputs not attenuating enough Vhf

Ok. So on Saturday I hooked up separate Vhf-Hi and a Uhf antennas for my mother using a RCA TVPRAMP1R pre-amplifier. She picked up 15 channels where before, she only had 2 channels (8.1, 8.2 on real channel 8)which is WGAL, Me-TV. The problem I'm having is that, while she picked up an extra 13 channels, both 8.1 and 8.2 are now heavily pixelated and are her worse channels. I could pick up real channel 8 no matter which way I pointed a single antenna. the problem happened when I combined the two. I'm thinking that the channel 8 signal is so strong that it's still getting through the pre-amp on the Uhf side. For Uhf, I built her a McClapp vertically stacked 8-bay with 9" spacing and 9.5" whiskers. I probably should've built a Uhf only gray-hoverman, but I really didn't expect to have the only Uhf channels come off of an almost 90 degree angle either. I was originally going to try to use the 8-bay for both bands. So, after that lengthy explanation, I was wondering what would be a good way to attenuate real channel 8 out on the Uhf side. I thought about using Vhf/Uhf diplexer before the preamp on the 8-bay and leaving the Vhf side unused. Thought anyone?
Here is the TVFool report, but I'm not sure about the accuracy of it:

TV Fool

I also posted this in TVFool's forum as well. Thank you for any input provided.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,066 Posts
@eggman531916 I've moved your post to an existing discussion thread. Also, the TV Fool report that you've posted doesn't appear to work. Could you post a valid report? Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,890 Posts
check the separate / combined switch on the preamp and set it to separate according to
the instruction manual. That should be enough to isolate the two antennas. BTW, you never mentioned the VHF antenna type, what is it?
Are you receiving the Ion channel on RF 12? While you are there checking the separate/combined switch, check which position the FM Trap switch is set to. If not already , set it to the FM Trap IN position to attenuate the FM broadcast band some.

Speaking of which...Do you have any strong FM radio stations nearby? take a peek at your "FMFool" report to find out.

Your tvfool link was clobbered by the forum software here...
don't know why that happens, must be a bug. But I grabbed it from what you posted on Tvfool's forum and pasted it here.

If none of that helps channel 8, it's possible that with the preamp, your are seeing some Low Power RF channel 8 at 226 degrees
and it's causing co-channel interference. To combat that, use a VHF antenna with a better front/back ratio and aim to the desired RF Ch8.
Maybe ensure it is well isolated from the co-channel station, try lowering it on the opposite side of house, until the desired RF ch 8 comes back in.

TV Fool
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,066 Posts
@majortom, thanks for taking the time to fetch the TV Fool report link.
 
221 - 240 of 287 Posts
Top