[snidely]

I read somewhere a few months ago there was a BEV news conference where the prototype 921 was on display.
That said, it looks like a few months yet before the 921 is in full distribution by DISH. DISH has sold a few of the 821 (non-PVR) HD box to users, but now claim they are "out of stock". Sounds like another month or two for that to come out for real as well.
My guess would be Canada would get the 921 by fall. I will get one to replace my BEV 6000 as soon as i can.

...mike

 

[jay2121a]

You will see both it and the 811 this year.

 

[travisc]

At a ticket of about $1,500 on the 921, if you believe what people are speculating.

 

[jay2121a]

It will be around that price, but remember if you just buy a 6020 and a 5800 you will spend, $860 plus $550, or $1410, the 921 will give much more then these two receivers.

 

[Arthur Dent]

This probably will be the highest price in the world a customer will have to pay upfront to be able to use the paid services of only one provider. Money thrown out of the window if he decides to switch to the competition.
I wonder how these radically new ideas for customer retention became possible in North America, which in general claims to be a proponent of free market economy. Doesn't the term "consumer rights" ring any bell anymore?

 

[MarcP]

Doesn't the term "consumer rights" ring any bell anymore?

One heck of a ban pun...

But I agree. If Rogers (i.e. cable operators) can offer a rental option for all their receivers, why can't satellite providers do the same? What's stopping them? Eventually, I believe they'll be forced to, but this may take a long time.

 

[travisc]

If Motorola can produce an HDTV PVR with a cost of $500 US, why can't Dish Network/Expressvu?

 

[57]

Two tuners, much larger HDD may be part of the reason

 

[Arthur Dent]

Two tuners, much larger HDD may be part of the reason

Since a 250GB drive can be had now for $200 retail, somehow I fail to see what kind of other components could bump up the price to $1500.
I'm even more puzzled how a PCB with 3 year old chips in a box (called model 6000) can be sold for $700, but obviously people at BEV know how their business better.

 

[jay2121a]

I guess they could come to market with a single tuner hd box that can only record 8 hours like shaw plans to, but that doesn't make much sense. The fact remains this box IS available for $1049US on Dishnetwork right now and is being bought even though there are cheaper receivers on the market by other providers. People also bought 4700 for $749 6 years ago even though cable had no hardware cost, in fact people spent $5000 15 years ago on C-band. The fact remains that Bev is the only current sat provider in North America that gives two feeds of networks in HD, (so ANY programming on those channels are available in that format) they have 14 channels running full time, not including PPV and Movie channels, and in Canada that will not be surpassed by *C since they are already out of transponder room. If you have a $4000 TV $700 is not much more to enjoy ALL network HD programming available.

 

[I_Want_My_HDTV]

EV's problem is that they depend on Dishnet for hardware. Current 6000s were all manufactured during or before August 2002. That is when production was stopped due to FCC regulations. Therefore costs are locked at August 2002 prices, plus warehousing costs. Prices are fixed by Dishnet.

Recently, Dishnet raised the price on the 811 reveivers (the 6000 replacement) from US$399 to US$499 at the last minute. I suspect part of the increase is due to the falling US dollar. EV is probably going to add 50% exchange rate to that. (They are adding 50% exchange rate to the US price of 5900 PVR.) EV does not subsidize HD receivers. (Why should they even though *C and Rogers do?)

Dishnet is charging US$999 for the 911 HD PVR. The high cost is not necessarily due to components. It is partly due to an long and costly development cycle that has produced a receiver that will most likely sell in small quantities. The 911 PVR is essentially a Linux based PC with a 250 GB hard drive and a DTH tuner. This is not overly expensive to produce but not cheap either.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I'm not saying that Bell are getting their receivers for nothing. They are doing what any company having almost monopoly status would do - pass all the losses due to bad business decisions on to their customers. It's the equivalent of being able to sell Nortell shares you bought at $120 3 years ago at $130 now.
It's true that Bell don't have much choice with anything, but when it comes to copying Dish Net's policies, they seem to be implementing only the part with hiking prices. I'm sure their decision makers will find Dish's 0$ or $100 deals on 811 and 6000 receivers "not suitable" for Bell's business model. The same way they decided to use 3 year old prices and exchange rates when calculating the current price of 6000. Thier thoughts probably go along these lines: "The pathetic domestic competion has run out of transponders, foreign competition is being kept comfortably away by friendly liberal government, HDTV customers have spent $4000+ on their sets already - what's stopping us from screwing them over and over as much as we can?"

 

[jay2121a]

I'm not saying that Bell are getting their receivers for nothing. They are doing what any company having almost monopoly status would do - pass all the losses due to bad business decisions on to their customers. It's the equivalent of being able to sell Nortell shares you bought at $120 3 years ago at $130 now.
It's true that Bell don't have much choice with anything, but when it comes to copying Dish Net's policies, they seem to be implementing only the part with hiking prices. I'm sure their decision makers will find Dish's 0$ or $100 deals on 811 and 6000 receivers "not suitable" for Bell's business model. The same way they decided to use 3 year old prices and exchange rates when calculating the current price of 6000.

Dish has 4.8 million subs and a population to sell to of over 300 million, Bell has 1.3 million and a population of 30 million to sell to. An uplink center, sats, hardware, staff ect cost the same no matter where you are. With 3 times the customer base and 10 times the popultaion to sell to Dish has a much larger cash flow and sell potential. So don't expect the same 'deal' as Dish here in Canada, oh and don't forget Bell buys their receivers in US $ then has to sell them in CDN.


As far as having a Monopoly, hmmm, we have two sat companies, regional cable, free air tv, black market DSS, in some areas pay air tv like Look, all with the same access to the same channels, (except for DSS) but since Bell, who's been in the business 6 months less than *c made the point to get two birds up there as fast as they can and *c didn't, Bell spent the 1 billion, *c didn't, you want to call that unfair and taking advantage of cutomers? All other providers don't need to spend $250 million to add channels since their infrastructure is already there, so they can sub hardware even more, which they do, but then they don't want to give you the channels because it is more profitable to give highspeed internet to the guy next door to you.

The simple fact is $700 after rebates gets you a 6020 with 15 channels of hd and 5 PPV, $500 will get you a shaw box with 3 channels.

 

[WarrenC12]

Dishnetwork and Bell are 2 different companies too. Bell is a communications company involved in everything from cell phones to satelitte TV. And they are competing with SC (starcrap), whereas Dishnetwork focuses totally on satelitte TV (to my knowledge), and they are trying hard to catch up with DirecTV, which has better programming and Tivo.

So ya, Bell is taking advantage of the fact that people here don't have much of a choice for receivers.

$1000US for the 911, or $1500cdn, if it was available today for BEV users, fine.. but still wanting $700 for the 6000 is disgusting.

They need some Telus style publicity.

-W

 

[jay2121a]

Again I don't think $200 more for 20 channels vs no real channels is that much more to pay, also the fact that even Directv and Dishnet do not offer all the networks in HD like Bell gives them some more bragging rights.

 

[Arthur Dent]

jay2121,

I'm sure that Bell spends a lot on infrastructure and whatnot. I'm also willing to believe that they find their revenue not sufficient due to a multitude of factors - just like I and anyone I know find their own income insufficient. The point is that they are punishing with absurd entry prices their most valuable customers - the HDTV enthusiaists who generally pay for top dollar programming packages. How many 6000 receivers have Bell sold so far? Is the additional $300-$400 they rip off the customer with each sale going to strengthen their bottom line? How am I supposed to feel towards a company giving me the attitude "You've spent a fortune already for a HDTV set, you have no real choice, so spend another fortune on us. Just for the privilege of being able to pay for our services later."
And the worst thing is that after paying the ransom for the receiver people are willing to put with this kind of crap even more, because they've already made a substantial investment.

BTW, one practical question - let's assume that I decide to take the risk of being labeled a criminal (if the previous owner had done something illegal with it) and buy a used ExpressVu hi-def receiver. Will they activate it?

 

[jay2121a]

First of all I don't think they are ripping people off, if you are in business and sell products a lot of things factor into the price you charge for the product, what I was saying is to compare the price of Dish with Bell is unfair since these factors are much different, but if you want a handout I guess there is no changing your mind.

"You've spent a fortune already for a HDTV set, you have no real choice, so spend another fortune on us. Just for the privilege of being able to pay for our services later." This is not how they set the price, they look at the landed cost, (remember it is already 30%+ more then the US company pays for it), then compare it to the SAC (subscriber accusation cost, this is how much on average it costs to get a customer, last quarter they reported this number around $700), then factor in the ARS, (how much a customer spends on average, again last quarter they reported around $47) then look at the budget and come to a fair price that works at retail. Is it a lot, yes, but that’s life, not everyone can have the best things right?

“BTW, one practical question - let's assume that I decide to take the risk of being labeled a criminal (if the previous owner had done something illegal with it) and buy a used ExpressVu hi-def receiver. Will they activate it?” If you buy a used receiver they will activate it after any outstanding bill is paid and a $30 change of ownership fee is charged on your first bill, if it has been tampered with and goes down due to an ECM later you will not be covered by their extended coverage therefore you would be out money.

 

[I_Want_My_HDTV]

I agree that not adopting standards for satellite receivers is a bad business decision for theDTH industry as a whole. This is an industry problem, not an EV problem. While the US satellite industry remains proprietary, Canadian satellite providers will remain the same. Our entertainment industry is, like it or not, almost totally dependant on the US entertainment industry for technology and content.

 

[NormL]

I've locked and split the "BEV-no HD/PVR planned in 2004?" thread. The post that were consistent with the thread remain here, the rest has been locked.

The discussion about BEV HD-PVR and HD receivers can continue here.

To discuss DirectTV, Dish, stealing of signals and such, please do so in the apporiate forum and thread.

Thanks.

 

[Kpt_Krunch]

I would say BEV's only other option would be to treat the Receivers like manufacturers of printers treat their wares - sell the receivers at cost, or slightly below, then charge a ridiculous amount for the content - oh, but the content can be had, can't it? Well, I for one don't blame Bell for charging an arm and a leg for the receiver. I work in retail (sort of), and anyone else in retail can tell you the same thing - 15 to 25% of the markup in ALL products are to cover the store theft. If no one stole, ALL prices would be a lot less. So you see, it is a catch 22. The honest people have to pay for the criminals, the criminals pay the orginal price as they know they can get it back in spades with the stolen signal, the honest people get [email protected]#&ed and decide to become criminals, and poor BEV loses no matter what.

I want my MTV er HDTV signal. I also want the PVR and the DVI (or HDMI) output, so I will wait for the 921, and pay the price for it, and subscribe to the extra services and pay for all the criminals - at least I can sleep at night.