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Best Plastics, Composites, Rubber for structural antenna parts

90277 Views 212 Replies 43 Participants Last post by  300ohm
Just a warning note about using ABS for structural parts that I've mentioned many times before - hopefully what you're planning to use is the thick walled stuff that has little or no flex. If you go to Rona or Lowe's or Home Depot and shake a 10 foot ABS pipe like a sword it flexes a lot. ;) It seems to be rigid, but its not. If you shake a length of PVC like that it will seem like a wet noodle, so avoid using PVC for structural use either, except when recommended in build plans.

From experience I'm clarifying that ABS should never be used as a pole or mast, and it should be carefully considered if you're thinking of using it as a horizontal boom of any length more than a meter or a few feet.
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I used 3/4" but next time i`d go with the 1" pvc. I`m skeptical on how this option will hold up outdoors but i`ll add it to the test mast.
Use the gray electrical pvc pipe, same OD size, and its UV resistant, and about 40% cheaper.:)
(...) I`ve read on this site that running rods through pvc may "electrically lengthen" the reflector rods so that would be out of the question. (...)
I was planning my next build based on a wooden pin (stud) that fits perfectly inside an 1" grey electrical PVC conduit, but I have some questions now that I read this:
  1. Would the PVC also act as a reflector since it could bound rods electrically, just like a metallic mast ?
  2. Does someone experienced wooden stuff inside a plastic/pvc/whatever UV protection cover and saw the wood beginning to curve with time ?
  3. Should I completely insulate this wooden pin inside the PVC or let some holes for aeration (on the bottom of the mast maybe) ?
I was planning my next build based on a wooden pin (stud) that fits perfectly inside an 1" grey electrical PVC conduit, but I have some questions now that I read this:
You mean your mast is 1" grey PVC and the wood goes inside to stiffen it ? Thats fine. I did the same and used generous amounts of polyurethane construction glue around old broomsticks and pushed them in. So the broomsticks are pretty well sealed. Then I capped the top, but left the bottom open for any water to drain out.

PVC pipe is not an electrical conductor.
Good to hear. I have the choice of 1" grey PVC with perfect fit wood stick, or 1¼" PVC with perfect fit wooden stick. It's pretty much like if the PVC pipes were made to cover those wooden pin. However those pins are made of pine I think. There is an oak pin that would fit the 1¼" PVC pipe but is just 4' long unfortunately. Oak would have been my choice since it's really hard to bend.
The problem with modern woods, esp the cheep stuff sold at Home depot and such, is that the trees are gentically engineered to grow faster. this also makes them less dense and as they dry out, they warp, curl and split bad. Take a look at the 2x4 and 2x6 piles after the bundle ties have been off a few days. They look more like hull planks. Watch out for this when using dowel rod to brace pvc.
The wooden dowel I'm talking about is round and the finish is very polished; doesn't look in any way in aspect and texture of the 2x4 or 2x6. They stand up separately in a tube to hold them (not tied together), and they look very dry to me. Those dowel are used by carpenters usually, and they might have been there for a while.

I found those sticks in Reno Depot and Rona (in Longueuil) and they come in a vast variety of width and length. The broom stick is a wise idea, but filling the pole with construction glue bring it about the same price as the perfect fitted wooden dowel.

Edit: I finally found a 1 3/8" by 6' oak stick that fits tight into the grey PVC tubing at BMR/Matco. Time will tell about it being crooked or not by heat, cold and humidity.
but filling the pole with construction glue bring it about the same price as the perfect fitted wooden dowel.
I didnt fill the tube, just liberally smeared the boomstick. Yeah, polyurethane construction glue (which expands a bit when curing) is about $4 a 10 oz tube vs $2 for Liquid Nails constuction glue. And once you open the tube, the shelf life is only a couple weeks. But compared to Liquid Nails, I think its worth it.
Just a tip to try to save some of the polyurethane glue. Tip the bottle up side down. This will put the air bubble (and skin that will form) at the bottom of the bottle and will yet you used the glue the next time.
Just a tip to try to save some of the polyurethane glue.
Thats for the polyurethane glue. Polyurethane construction adhesive is different, looking more like Liquid Nails in color and consistancy and comes in caulking type tubes. :)
Plastic Hinges - and other plastics for antenna builds.

By the way . . .

I was searching for a supply of plastics materials for general antenna building ... and I ended up at a "Plate and Glass" place.

You know ... "Glaziers" ... businesses / contractors who fix windows, and cut glass and mirrors and stuff.

They stock certain plastic stuff which may be of use for antenna building.

Sure enough, they had PLASTIC HINGES.

Small single ones ... and 12 inch long, continuous ones.

[ They also had LEXAN plastic sheet 3/16 in and 1/4 in thick - but very expensive ]

[ Acrylic rod (clear) in 6 ft lengths. 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch diameter. Price not too bad. I wonder how acrylic plastic stands up to U.V. / sunlight ? ]

... one could make those "UNOBTAINIUM" GH reflector rod spacers from acrylic rod ... if the material were good in U.V. and strong enough ... I must get some and try it out ... see how it drills and machines ...

[ They also had all sorts of plastic clips like mirror clamps, and other various plastic bits, and plastic grooved wheels - excellent, I think, for pulling thin wire around - like a clothes' line on pulleys ... for making "suspended" folded dipoles ]
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I wonder how acrylic plastic stands up to U.V. / sunlight ?
It doesnt last as long outside as LEXAN (polycarbonite) does, hence the price difference.

When I first built my greenhouse, I used Tuftex UltraVinyl sheets from Lowes on the roof. (Vinyl Grow Clear) http://www.lowesforpros.com/sites/default/files/Tuftex_Brochure.pdf
They said it would last 7 years, and darn it, thats all it did last until it got yellowed and brittle, heh.

I replaced them with the Tuftex PolyCarb sheets, which have a lifetime limited warranty. :confused:

When new, the blueish tint of the Vinyl Grow Clear sheets was better for the plants than the pure clear color of the PolyCarb sheets.
Plastic Mesh Screen / Fence - Black - fine pitch

Today I noticed a black plastic "mesh". Looked pretty sturdy and tough. Approx 1/2" - 3/4" square pitch on the mesh. Maybe came on a 3 or 4 ft wide roll.

It was wrapped and tie-wrapped around the bottom of the trunk of some trees in the bottom of a ravine where a small stream ran. Possibly to protect from animals chewing the bark. So maybe it's used in landscaping.

I tried to rip off a small sample - but the stuff was too tough to rip off by hand without tools. Folding it back and forth to try break it off did not work either - pretty tough resilient black plastic, of some form ...

It looked designed for outdoor use - probably pretty good lifespan outdoors in the elements and in U.V. light / sunlight.

Now if you get my idea ... if you strech a plastic mesh like that across a frame, you have plenty of possibilites to secure GH antenna elements - practically, easily and however / wherever you like.

A very versatile material, I think, for antenna building.

I gotta go back w/cutters ... and get a small sample & try to identify this plastic mesh fencing.

Maybe take a picture too to share it ... and see if anyone else can identify what it is ...

[ Cause one of my ideas was to use plastic snow fence, the bright orange stuff, to support antenna elements ... but this black stuff is much more useful and aesthetic ... I think ]

Anyone have any idea what this stuff is ?
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Today I noticed a black plastic "mesh". Looked pretty sturdy and tough. Approx 1/2" - 3/4" square pitch on the mesh. Maybe came on a 3 or 4 ft wide roll.

It looked designed for outdoor use - probably pretty good lifespan outdoors in the elements and in U.V. light / sunlight.

[ Cause one of my ideas was to use plastic snow fence, the bright orange stuff, to support antenna elements ... but this black stuff is much more useful and aesthetic ... I think ]
plastic fence will last long outside as it is designed to. the wind load for this as an antenna support will be large. metal or plastic tubing would be much stronger and stiffer with a lot less wind load.
Anyone have any idea what this stuff is ?
Yeah, landscaping stuff. Around here, road crews use it (backed with finer plastic mesh cloth) to hold back dirt, so the dirt doesnt go into a ditch or whatever. Definately lasts longer than 10 years, but the wooden 2 X 2 white oak stakes its usually attached to dont. But its long enough for the dirt to settle/compact naturally.
Now if you get my idea ... if you strech a plastic mesh like that across a frame, you have plenty of possibilites to secure GH antenna elements - practically, easily and however / wherever you like.
Not sure I catch your drift. Wind load is a big concern.
Plastic Mesh Fencing - 12mm on the squares.

O.K. so maybe the antenna put together with this plastic stuff will "catch the drift" of the wind and get blown down ... haa haa ...

But anyway, I went back to the ravine with a pocket knife and cut a small square sample of it.

It must be a metric size, cause it has a 12 mm pitch on the squares.
Must come in approx 3 or 4 ft wide rolls - maybe 1 metre wide then?

Picture: Plastic Mesh fencing.




Pieces might work as spacers - with elements going through the squares.

Strips of it of a certain width, pulled on a frame, might work to support antenna elements.

Yes it will have some wind load cause it's a fairly tight mesh.

Parts of it could be strategically cut out - where no support is needed - to reduce wind load.

This stuff might be versatile enough to be used somehow.

Anyway - wanted to share that.

Need to source a supplier and approx price.
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Hi All:

A few materials questions for the group. I've decided to build my DBGH w/NARODs using a single 1" ID grey electrical PVC mast (already bought), reinforced by a 1" OD wooden dowel (not yet bought). Others on this board have discussed some types of wooden dowels being subject to warping, due to being soft or fast-growing varieties of wood. Wondering if anyone can suggest a preferred wood type to find for the 1" dowel, maybe a harder wood variety or one otherwise less likely to warp with moisture.

For the reflectors, I have the ACE Hardware plastic gutter ferrules, which I plan to insert directly (snugly) into holes drilled crosswise through the PVC mast and inserted dowel. Because we tend to get snow, wind and ice storms here, I'd like to use 3/8" OD aluminum tubing for the reflector elements (which I haven't bought yet), supported by non-metallic rods inserted through the full length of each pair of the reflector halves (just like 300ohm's photo in post #25 of this thread). I'd like to have a snug fit on that, if possible, and I'd probably use small pointed screws inserted from the back center of the PVC mast, through the gutter ferrules and partially into the non-metallic rod material to hold things in place.

My check of the aluminum tubing available online finds 3/8" OD tubing with wall thicknesses of 0.0625", 0.058", 0.035" and others.
http://www.dxengineering.com/pdf/Aluminum Tubing Rev2d.pdf

Ideally, I thought that if I could find 3/8" OD aluminum tubing with 0.0625" wall thickness, that would leave a 1/4" ID available for inserting a 1/4" OD non-metallic rod. Wondering what is the wall thickness of the aluminum tubing used by antenna manufacturers (would help me determine whether 0.0625" wall thickness would be okay). I've been looking at local stores for various plastic garden stakes, orange fiberglass driveway snow markers, etc., but haven't located any size combination that I think will work. So, I'm looking for any advice about what to use. Wondering about the OD measurement of 300ohm's fiberglass tent rods, whether they fit snugly inside the reflector tubing, and where to get them. Was also checking online and found some 1/4" OD ABS plastic, acrylic and fiberglass rods, some used as tent poles or kite poles, but I don't know how much they would bend, or whether they would snap in cold weather.
http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=159
http://www.kitebuilder.com/stock.htm

I'd very much appreciate any guidance from the group. Thanks in advance...
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Wondering if anyone can suggest a preferred wood type to find for the 1" dowel, maybe a harder wood variety or one otherwise less likely to warp with moisture.
I used broom handles. Theyre generally made from a wood less likely to warp, like straight grained fir. And since for some reason I always keep the handle when the broom wears out, I had a lot on hand, heh.

Wondering what is the wall thickness of the aluminum tubing used by antenna manufacturers (would help me determine whether 0.0625" wall thickness would be okay).
Actually, that varies a bit. The gauge used by AntennaCraft is a hair thinner than used by the old Channel Master products. 0.0625" wall thickness would be more than OK, and you could even go thinner, as you dont need the stiffness that long (54" free standing ends) vhf low elements required.

and found some 1/4" OD ABS plastic, acrylic and fiberglass rods, some used as tent poles or kite poles, but I don't know how much they would bend, or whether they would snap in cold weather.
If theyre fiberglass with real fibers in resin, theyll hold up very well. Other 1/4" OD fiberglass to look for are hunting arrows and driveway markers. Like tent poles, they are very strong and light.
Farm Supply Stores

At TSC - "The Incredible Country Hardware Store" (sumthin' like that).

1. Plastic Stand Offs in a Bag for Farm Electric Fences
(used to space and insulate the live wire from the fence)
(look to be about the right length for the reflector to element gap)
(to space zig-zag element from reflector plane)

2. Rectangular Fence Spreader Rods - look like made of fibreglass.
Stiff, straight, strong, flexible. About the right length. 5ft / 6ft long.
Rectangular cross section- maybe 1/8 in thick - maybe 1/2 or 5/8 in wide.
(apparently they slip thru the chain link wire fence at the end, to pull it towards the metal pole). Colour: Grey, Green.

3. Ideas: Fibreglass or Carbon Fibre poles or rods
- fibreglass mop handles - Cleaning Supply places ($$ think expensive)
- wind surfer mast - tall - tapered - big mast - put a DBGH on it.
- Carbon Fibre hockey stick shafts. (rectangular shafts, about right size)

(Fibre glass or Carbon fibre! VERY strong, very light. I think if you can find a supply of Fibre Glass or Carbon Fibre rods ... you've got some good building materials.)
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Spied on the make magazine blog, a seller of PVC fittings in odd configurations (four way tees, for example) and halfway reasonable prices.

UV stabilized, even.
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/08/formufit_sells_maker-focused_pvc_at.html
www formufit com
Good link. Three way ells and four way tees and 5 way crosses are a rare commodity.

With the beveled ends on their fittings, they definately had pvc furniture making in mind.
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