I was wondering if anyone with a built in OTA tuner is able to record HD broadcasts using a regular dvd recorder? Or do I need to buy something with a Hard drive?
I imagine the TV will have to be turned on and tuned into the channel I want to record as well since the tuner is built in? I work swing shifts and might have to quit my job now that I am missing all these wonderful high-def broadcasts!
There are several issues here. First of all most TVs don't have any type of video output connecter. Secondly, unless you have and HD-DVD or Blueray DVD recorder you cannot record in HD (it is theoretically possible to record HD programs on a standard DVD, but I only know of one DVD player that will play this type of DVD and you will probably get less than an hour of programming per disk).
Apparently come February all video recorders (DVD, VHS or HDD) sold in the US will be required to have an ATSC tuner, but I don't know of any DVD recorders on the market yet that have one (there are a couple HD HDD recorders and an HD VCR that have them). Even if they do magically appear on the market, I am sure many (all?) will down convert the signal to SD
Is there a thread for talking about set top OTA HD recorders?
Toshiba D-VR650 DVD Recorder Coming Soon With ATSC
Did anyone see anything in the CES coverage about these video recorders? On the Toshiba press release I found the following:
Toshiba's entry level D-R400 single deck DVD recorder offers HDMI with upconversion to 720p, 1080i and 1080p. It also offers one touch recording and a DV input. The step-up model, the D-R550, adds ATSC, QAM and NTSC tuners.
The top of the line Toshiba D-VR650 Super Multi Drive DVD recorder + VCR combination unit offers ATSC, QAM and NTSC tuners and HDMI with upconversion to 720p and 1080i.
I found press releases for 3 more DVD Recorders with ATSC tuners. One from RCA (who have also announced an ATSC tuner for old analog TVs) and two from Samsung. They are all going to be in the $250-$320 US range and will be available in the middle of 2007.
Edit: I also found Panasonic's press release. It looks like all of their DVD recorders in 2007 will have digital tuners (other brands entry level machines seem to lack any tuner).
I should also note that all of these DVD recorders seem to record in either EDTV or SDTV but not HDTV.
Will they pass through HD from the tuner to the TV?
Many of them are capable of "up-converting" to HD resolutions from DVD. The tuner will not be to useful if it doesn't support HD, or down-converts the output.
Probably the only OTA PVR option available right at this moment without any strings attached is to use a PC with any of the ATSC cards or new USB tuners on the market.
Now that I think about it, there is one other option that I remember, but it is of no value to electrocutioner or WoodButcher as it is not an STB. Therefore it is of no value to anyone with an existing STB - only those who are considering a purchase of a HDTV and would like to go OTA that is.
LG had 50" & 60" plasmas with ATSC tuner and integrated 160 GB hard drive DVR - 50/60py2dr & 50pc1dr are the model #'s.
I don't remember anything about their actual quality/capabilities though - either the plasma HDTV or the integrated DVR. The first two are older models now and they were very expensive when they first came out in the US. At the time they were high-end models. The 50pc1dr was considered a lower model. If I recall they weren't immediately available in Canada and I don't recall ever seeing them in a retail store here.
Just posting this here since it deals with OTA PVR options.
Sony used to make four HD PVRs with built in ATSC tuners (the DHG-HDD100, 200, 250 and 500). These were very expensive and thus not very popular. You can still find them on e-bay now and again.
Here is another link which describes what the different manufacturers are doing with the FCC's mandate for ATSC tuners in devices that that receive television signals: Tuner Rule Hits Recorders.
All of Panasonic's recorders will have both digital and analog tuners.
LG, Toshiba and JVC will have recorders with and without tuners.
Zenith (a subsidiary of LG) will only have tunerless recorders.
LiteOn will get out of the branded DVD recorder business.
For those who want a VCR with an ATSC tuner, it looks like the only standalone VCR will be the expensive JVC HM-DT100 Digital VHS HDTV Recorder (though I don't think it is available in Canada). Other than that, the only way to get a VCR will be in a DVD/VCR combo unit.
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hi there.
i just finish talking with the quebec rep for panasonic and he confirm to me
that panasonic is launchin a dvd recorder with a atsc tuner built in.
it is gon to be available in april with a price point of 379$.
it is good news for people that have hd tvs with out atsc tuners..
i think that the recording is going to be downscaled to 480p..
over all it is good news.
I have a home a lg atsc pvr that also records 1080i and also as 2 separate audio video inputs. i got it of the lg rep in montreal and it is a great peace of equipement. i will post the model number when i get home.
using it with a projector for 126 inch of hd tv. that is the good life. superbowl will be amazing.
List of Main Brand OTA ATSC Recorders (with MSRP in US $)
Here is a list of recorders (DVD, VCR, or HDD) with ATSC tuners that either have been anounced or are currently available. The list is a work in progress and the list of features is my best guess from the press release and may not be accurate. MSRP is in USD:
Thanks Roger, that's terrific info! For some people the lack of this type of OTA machine has been a real downer, and for some it has been the reason they haven't gone with OTA.
Nice to see the upcoming analogue cutoff in the U.S. having such a good effect on the marketplace. I hope those companies will market these products in Canada!
Roger,
My thanks too. I guess the next thing I would like to add to your table is Canadian release dates. I think there was mention of the Panasonic in April. Does anyone have any more dates to add?
I was thinking, it will be interesting to see how the DVD recorders will handle unconverted SD and ED programs since the recorder will have to downconvert them. Unconverted WS programs will probably see some degradation as compared to the original WS source as a result of the upconversion and downconversion processes, but it still should look pretty good.
The real problem could be with Pillar Boxed 4:3 programs. If the recorder doesn't know that it has been pillar boxed, it might record it in anamorphic WS, resulting in a loss of picture detail. I can see three ways of resolving this issue, each with its own pros and cons.
Let the user select the aspect ratio. The problem is most people don't know which aspect ratio a program is going to be broadcast in.
Use the ATSC flags to determine the aspect ratio. If the flags are incorrect, the wrong aspect ratio could be used though.
Try to detect black bars to select the correct aspect ratio. This could be difficult to do and could, in some circumstances, result in the switching of aspect ratios mid program. This would probably be the best approach though.
I'm just wondering why there are so many ATSC DVD recorders announced or available, and so few HDD recorders (see post #25)?
I've never used either, but at first glace HDD recording seems to be a better solution for a number of reasons -- theoretically infinite capacity w/ add-on drives, no need to down-convert, a mechanically simpler device, possible lower long-term costs (depending on how many dvds you would burn), etc.
Am I missing something? Is there a strong argument in favour of DVD recording?
timmy1, I have heard several people with similar questions. I don't have an official answer but can only speculate that the primary issue is cost. The increased data requirements of HD necessitate larger and faster hard drives. If you also include the added cost of an ATSC tuner (some estimate that it adds an extra $100) the device probably doesn't end up meeting the price point that OEMs estimate is required for it to be successful. As the cost of hard drives and ATSC tuners come down, we may start to see more HD-HDD recorders on the market.
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