[lpersaud]

Hi All, please help. I just received my 3 50VS810 since Dec 26, 2004.

After waiting 5 days for the replacement and 3 hours for the TV to warm up to room temperture, I powered it up with the following:

LCD has a red blotch the size of a coke can (mid right side of screen)
Reported failure 12/27/04 - LCD screen bleeding black on left bottom
Reported failure 12/16/05 - LCD has a very large green blotch at left bottom of screen.

What do you suggest I do? I might get the Panasonic DLP.

Thanks,
Leslie

 

[hugh]

Three sets, that's horrible, I'd drop Hitachi in a flash if I were you!
I like the LG DLP.

 

[mike infinity]

What do you suggest I do? I might get the Panasonic DLP.

1. Try the 50v500A. My first one works perfectly. You get several PQ benefits to the v500A over the vs810 and you save some money as well
2. Keep pressing the customer service department until you get a set that works. (Do this no matter what set you choose).
3. If you want to go DLP, then the panny DLP or the sammy 5085 are the best. But you may get similar QC problems with those sets.

I'm going to have to disagree with Hugh about the LG DLP. I found the colour and contrast inferior on that set to the panny/sammy...among other things.

Good Luck,

Mike Flynn

 

[hugh]

I'm going to have to disagree with Hugh about the LG DLP. I found the colour and contrast inferior on that set to the panny/sammy...among other things.

Its all in eye of the beholder I suppose hence the reason I always encourage people to get out and spend time watching the set your thinking of buying.

I've heard people rave about the 810 but frankly in the times I've seen it, I thought the PQ was poor.

Let us know what you decide.

 

[lpersaud]

Thanks Huge and Mike. I really like this set and by a long shot might try one more.

My 2nd option is the Toshiba 52HMX84 or Panasonic.

I really expected better from Hitachi. Since all of my failures are in the 4x range I will ask for a 5x or 6x (serial #)

Cheers,
Leslie

 

[mike infinity]

Its all in eye of the beholder I suppose hence the reason I always encourage people to get out and spend time watching the set your thinking of buying.

And as long as the manufacturers are willing to offer a 30 day return policy, do what I did: audition lots of sets at home (except the ones that look terrible in the store)

Besides getting an overall general impression of PQ, it also helps to break down your criteria for PQ to make an informed decision about it. It also helps one decide what is most important to them. Here are the criteria I chose (in no particular order):

1. sharpness and resolution
2. noise and false contouring
3. contrast and black level
4. colour reproduction
5. tweakability, programmable settings
6. off axis viewing
7. brightness..performance in a bright ambient light, reflectivity of screen cover
8. ergonomics

This approach helped me narrow down things quite a bit. The nutshell:

DLP: If rainbows/noise/temporal dithering don't bother you then go for the Panny 50" hd2+ DLP. Same output as sammy 5085, but much cheaper (and no pedestal).

LCD: Hitachi 50v500A or the sony 50" GW (although the sony has resolution and sharpness disadvantage and is more difficult to tweak).

Personally, I found that LG put in dissappointing performance in the colour, noise and contrast departments for both DLP and LCD.

I've heard people rave about the 810 but frankly in the times I've seen it, I thought the PQ was poor.

Same here. One that I saw was plagued with vertical banding as well. The only thing I like about it (over the v500A) was the smaller form factor and all- black casing. Other than that the v500A wins hands down (for alot less money).

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

 

[casscarr2002]

Try one more set, I'm doing the same (# 4 for me as well) although I'm upgrading to the 60" instead of the 3 50"ers I've had. I absolutely hate the silver form factors of other lcd's. I watch mainly movies on this TV with low lighting and the silver crap annoys me. I want to see the picture not the casing. From my own experience I personally would not chose any other LCD other than the VS models for PQ. Although if the next one is bad, I may just bite my tongue and try the V500A as Mike Infinity keeps pushing on everyone.
BTW, Mike for reference, does the V500A come in 60" ?? I can't seem to find any info on this specific model. Can you direct me?

 

[2UTH DR]

You should consider the Sony Grand Wega models. I have had the KDF 55WF655 since boxing day and I am quite pleased with the set. No problems yet (knock on wood)

 

[maxyvits]

I had 2 X 50v500a. The pq was good OTB, but I never got to calibrate it through the SM. I had to return both sets on account of crop circle issues. I switched to Sony's GWIII (KF50WE620) and preferred its pq to the v500a OTB. However, the Sony was not without its quality control issues. The first two sets wouldn't power on and the third set developed a crop circle near the 30th day. I'm on my fourth Sony set now (manufactured Dec. 2004) and so far so good (it's only been two days!!!). I have calibrated GWIII via the SM and the pq simply rocks on true HD simulcasts. Keeping my fingers crossed that this one will last.

 

[mike infinity]

as Mike Infinity keeps pushing on everyone.

Just a suggestion actually.

What bothers me about several of the comments made around here is that people say 'PQ is better', but are unable to provide any particulars. As I have said before, people should at least try to break down their observations so that we can see the rationale for ourselves. Its all subjective, but its worth being methodological about it (especially when putting forward so much cash for a TV).

For example, maxywits and others say 'sony is better' than the v500A. All I ask is that they at least give us the specific observations for making that claim.

Personally, I found the sony less sharp and resolves less detail (hair sometimes looks like a solid colour instead of strands, etc. The sony users must add edge enhancement to get back some perception of sharpness (which adds unwanted artifacts).

Moreover, the colour was not as good (although this can be fixed in SM adjustments). Other than that the sony was PAR with hitachi (black levels, noise, etc).

I don't mind people preferring their sony. But more often than not this preference is not the result of a careful consideration or specific observations.

That said, I admit that if I could not get a hitachi without some kind of glitch (like maxywits), then I would happily get the sony since it was (overall) an excellent TV.

BTW, Mike for reference, does the V500A come in 60" ?? I can't seem to find any info on this specific model. Can you direct me?

Yes.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=11&sku_id=0770HDS0010040625&catid=11299&newdeptid=11

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

 

[maxyvits]

Mike: I had no intention of making this a flame war. If you read my posts carefully, you'll note that my preference for the Sony PQ is based on calibration via the SM, which I state openly I did NOT do with the v500a. In fact, I believe I've stated in these forums that the Hitachi provides better OTB experience, to which I can speak; I can't speak to its calibrated PQ via SM. Moreover, I've also said that the Sony set is not without quality control issues. If readers want comparative results, the AVS Forum provides much in this regard. Both sets, when functional, are among the best "affordable" LCD RPTV's out there.

 

[mike infinity]

Mike: I had no intention of making this a flame war.

That is not my intention either. I don't think I am coming across the right way here. I suppose its the nature of forums like these...face to face I think we would all agree that we are having an amicable discussion, even when we disagree.

I can't speak to its calibrated PQ via SM.

None is needed on the hitachi since the colour decoder (and more) is accessible in the user menu. The only SM adjustments made here are to correct anomolous problems like vertical banding.

Both sets, when functional, are among the best "affordable" LCD RPTV's out there.

I agree.

All I am saying here is this: if you prefer the sony for PQ (as you have stated), it would be helpful if you could be a bit more specific about it. It doesn't matter if we disagree about it in the long run (since its all subjective anyway). What matters is making the discussion as fruitful as possible.

Personally, I'm not particularly interested read posts that claim 'TV X is better' and nothing else. On the other hand, I am VERY interested to listen to the specific details as to WHY they feel that way. I'm sure the lurkers around here would be very interested as well.

I carefully scrutinized the sony and the hitachi, and I can't think of anything particular that would lead anyone to claim 'sony is better'...and I can think of a couple of reasons to prefer the hitachi (as I stated).

I am just wondering if I missed something....I am not trying to change anyone's mind. Sorry if I am coming across as confrontational. Thats not my intention. I have apprecieated your input on this forum.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

 

[maxyvits]

I think we would all agree that we are having an amicable discussion, even when we disagree.

Agreed

None is needed on the hitachi since the colour decoder (and more) is accessible in the user menu.

Oh yes, I vaguely remember.

All I am saying here is this: if you prefer the sony for PQ (as you have stated), it would be helpful if you could be a bit more specific about it. It doesn't matter if we disagree about it in the long run (since its all subjective anyway). What matters is making the discussion as fruitful as possible.

Ok then, the only thing I remember about the 50v500a, before and after calibrating with DVE, is bleeding black levels and gradation of shades. I didn't experience this with the Sony, before or after SM calibration. I was unable to correct this on my Hitachi's. I found the black levels on my Sony far more acceptable OTB. After calibrating via the SM, it improved even more giving me an exceptional grey scale for LCD (note: I'm not saying one can't achieve this with the v500). I also found the the colors of the Sony brilliant in a way in which I didn't with the v500; but perhaps with a bit more fiddling on the Hitachi I would've reached a comparable quality. In terms of detail, hair detail for instance (cf. certain scenes with Gandalf in ROTK), I can't make a comparison. However, after a SM calibration of the Sony, it was truly phenomenal. Moreover, I also like the way the Sony sits higher on its stand (I think three inches or so), the center of the screen being eye level; I find the Hitachi seated a little low--obviously not a PQ issue. It's easily resolvable by wedges or a different stand.

Anyway, these are a few things that have forced me to settle on the Sony. However, this might change if things go wrong again. It's quality control that I have issues with (with both sets).

Cheers!
maxyvits

 

[casscarr2002]

Mike, V500A ( a little confusing with that link you gave me ) if you read the descrition carefully.
Does this come with any HDMI? I have 2 HDMI cables running from my DVD and Settop box at $330 each. Wasting my $$$ if it deosn't accomodate HDMI. That may lead me to the 60" XS955 sony then.

 

[mike infinity]

is bleeding black levels and gradation of shades. I didn't experience this with the Sony, before or after SM calibration.

I've never heard of 'bleeding black levels'. Nor have I noticed any problem with with gray scale tracking on the Hitachi. All the colour-meter tests I've read and my own eyeballs indicate an excellent gray scale performance across the hitachi line right out of the box.

I havn't tested the sony, but the reviews claim a relatively poor gray scale performance before calibration. Can you give me more information on this?

I found the black levels on my Sony far more acceptable OTB.

As far as I can tell side by side (and by reading calibrated test results), there are no differences in black levels on these sets OOB. I have seen Hitachi vs810 and v500A side by side with GW in dark and bright rooms...I have not once noticed any difference in black level. Tests by reviewers with light meters seem to back that assertion up.

In terms of detail, hair detail for instance (cf. certain scenes with Gandalf in ROTK), I can't make a comparison. However, after a SM calibration of the Sony, it was truly phenomenal.

You would want to test native 1080i or 720p signals on this one. DVDs (ROTK included) are upscaled from 480p, and do not have 720 lines of resolution for you to examine to make a decision about sharpness. All other things equal, ROTK should look as sharp on a 480p TV (like a plasma EDTV) as they would on a 720p set. So if you are losing 720p resolution and sharpness on the sony, you won't detect it using a DVD as a source.

I have noticed that the HD prevu channel 1080i signal loses detail on the sony GW. Try turning your sharpness control to zero, this will eliminate edge enhancement and show you the base resolving power of the sony. The edge enhancement does not increase resolution from that base power, it just gives the appearance of sharpness to improve the aesthetic look of a soft image.

It's quality control that I have issues with (with both sets).

No kidding!

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

 

[mike infinity]

Mike, V500A ( a little confusing with that link you gave me ) if you read the descrition carefully.

You asked me for a 60" model of the v500, the link takes you to the FS product page on one. How is that confusing?

Does this come with any HDMI? I have 2 HDMI cables running from my DVD and Settop box at $330 each.

Can you return them? You should if you can because you can get cables like these online for a fraction of the cost with identical performance. And didn't your DVD player come with a cable for free? Most upsamplers do.

To answer your question, the v500 series has a DVI conncection (the replacements due out this year (v700 with cable box)) have the HDMI. But there's not much point in waiting since the problem is easily fixed.

Wasting my $$$ if it deosn't accomodate HDMI. That may lead me to the 60" XS955 sony then.

So you would spend an extra $800+tax only to get an HDMI connection instead of purchasing a DVI-HDMI connector for $20? If the sony had better PQ (or some other advantage) then I could understand this decision. Frankly, I'm not understanding your rationale here.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

 

[maxyvits]

I havn't tested the sony, but the reviews claim a relatively poor gray scale performance before calibration. Can you give me more information on this?

Yes, I can confirm this. Before calibration the darker greys are washed out on the (my) GWIII. After applying umr's tweaks (from AVS) on Pro setting it's perfect. There is a red push too on 1080i and 720p that people want to eliminate through SM.

PS -

I've never heard of 'bleeding black levels'.

Sorry, I meant black crush

 

[casscarr2002]

No you can't return cables after owning them for 4 months, unless you're magical don't think anyone could. The sony XS has 2 HDMI inputs, how is this confusing? Thus my move maybe to the XS as I think I've had enough of Hitachi. How can you not understand this, I can't return the HDMI, and frankly I won't, So yes, seeing as I have lots of $$ to spare, I would spend the extra $800 for an XS where in fact it is not $800 more (If I decide not to try another Hitachi but the 60" model). The actual increase in price is going to the 60" that I'm talking about. I have priced out with my dealer the XS vs the VS810 60's and 55"XS 50" Hitachi to be the same price in each category, he is very flexible.
I won't get into a cable discussion but I did not want to use the DVI cable that came with my Samsung. I wanted a HDMI Cable for future HDMI DVD and used a DVI adapter ($39.99 +tax). I'm a stickler for paying for top notch type cabling. Even though they're often no better than the box cable. This is really starting to annoy me. the v500a has just as many QC issues and PQ issues as it seems the VS810 does. If you don't want to spend the extra $$$ for the VS810 then yes buy the 500a, but as I have lots of $$$ to throw around I didn't mind paying the extra (at the time I purchased) $750 for the VS810. I'd say the v500a is a great day to day everyday viewing TV but the VS is "the" movie LCD out there, notwithstanding the Vertcal Banding, Pixel, green/red bleed issues

 

[mike infinity]

The sony XS has 2 HDMI inputs, how is this confusing?

I'm sorry CC, its just that you didn't tell me that an important requirement for you was 2 hdmi ports when you asked me to post a like to the 60v500.

I can't return the HDMI, and frankly I won't

You don't have to, you can buy adapters and not lose PQ. Its up to you. Some people prefer having the best of the best for cables...and I'm not taking that preference away from you. I respect it.

The actual increase in price is going to the 60" that I'm talking about.

I was talking about the 60" v500 series...the one you asked me about a couple of posts back.

the v500a has just as many QC issues and PQ issues as it seems the VS810 does.

Care to be more specific about the PQ problems with the v500 series?

but the VS is "the" movie LCD out there, notwithstanding the Vertcal Banding, Pixel, green/red bleed issues

....And the highly reflective screen cover and the inferior off axis viewing. I'm curious, just what does the VS do better that makes it "the" viewing machine? Seems like the only thing the VS has that the v500 doesn't is a nicer box and marketing hype. Thats not an insult to anyone's purchase...thats just my personal opinion based on all of the specific observations I have made.

Look CC, I'm not trying to upset you...and I'm sorry if I made you feel like you did not make good choices. If the vs810 'wows' you, then I'm happy for you. It really is an excellent TV to complement the excellent home theater that you are building.

Again, I apologize if I have offended you....I am just stating my opinion...I respect that you have your own and it differs from mine.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

 

[mike infinity]

Sorry, I meant black crush

The hitachi doesn't crush blacks maxywits....not unless you activate black enhancement (which is not necessary). I suspect the same can be said for most LCDs that employ black enhancment (a feature that should always be left off).

I have yet to see a TV crush blacks. I have seen a few dvd players that do...but not one TV. The panny 43lc13 crushed whites if you set the contrast/brightness high enough...but a little tweaking easily fixed it.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn