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may be different problem

Cheech1024 -
I re-read this thread twice, concentrating on just what you said was your trouble.
Have you followed up by taking your receiver to a neighbor's house, or vice versa?
In addition to any other problems, you may have bad or failing coax or connectors somewhere.
Maybe a splice in the cable?
Maybe water in a connector?
They can be intermittent and hard to diagnose.
I'm leaning more toward your LNBs or switch, though.. or the connections around 'em.

You got a new receiver, so what did you do new to hook it up?
Have you tried interchanging the receivers in your house?

Just some more ideas to try.
I'm not too anxious to embrace this "programming fault", though it is certainly a possibility.

Best of luck.
 

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Hi Anole,
We have two receivers in our home and have exchanged the receivers at each location. It did not matter where the 5100 was located the problem remained the same. The second receiver (3100) did not have any problems at either location.

Also read on one of the posts that it could be the LNB and to disconnect the second receiver. Did that so only one receiver was connected at any time. Problem was still only with the 5100. The 3100 worked flawlessly at both locations.

There is no switch, just the one LNB with two RG6 cables connecting to it.

Regarding the heat problem.... I popped the case off and connected a cpu fan and placed it over the Conexant chip (near the Rg6 connector). Ran it that way for about a week with no improvement. I am thinking about getting a can of cold spray and try cooling it when it gets really bad, see if that makes any difference. A little hesitant on using the heat gun for obvious reasons.

Thanks for the suggestions. The only reason I think it's programming is the signal indication changes to "Wrong Sat", the actual signal is ok. Go figure....


Cheech
 

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See at the bottom of you're post you state it changes to "Wrong Sat". This is EXACTLY what my 5100 did before I had to get the chip replaced and the fan hard wired on fulltime.

I am 99% sure this is you're problem; after all the overheats there is a cold solder joint somewhere and it works off and on...SAME problem as mine, trust me.....thats the issue and is and will only be resolved by replacing the chip and hard wiring the fan.....
 

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Unless you can do the chip replacement yourself or find someone local it seems to be not worth it. Best I found was $120 plus the shipping so turned out to be no cheaper than a refurb.
 

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Has anyone been able to get a better deal on a refurb 5100 than $149? For that price and only a 90 day warranty for a used receiver it seems expensive considering a new 5900 with warranty is only $299.
 

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Add me to the list of flaky 5100 owners. I've had mine for just about 3 years now. The tuner started acting up a few months ago. Some evenings it's fine, and other evenings (like tonight) it's unwatchable. The picture breaks up occasionally, and sometimes the "stand by for signal" screen comes up for a few seconds before I get a picture again.

Unfortunately I don't have another receiver to test in the house here. I do however have a dual-LNB dish. I tried my 5100 on the other cable, and got the same result.

When I go to the point dish/signal screen, some transponders are above 80%, while many are between 68% and 75%. If I leave it on that screen long enough, I'll occasionally catch the green bar at the bottom briefly turn red, then green again. I suppose it's losing the lock on the transponder for that brief moment, something which would probably coincide with the "stand by for signal" screen if I were watching live tv.

I finally called BEV tech support. I was on the phone with the guy for over 2 hours. For a lot of that time I was on hold while he got me to run checkswitch, pull and re-insert the smartcard, etc. He must be fairly new at the support gig, because he never concluded that the receiver is the problem. By the time I was done talking with him, he had reset my account, and all but the free preview channels are now gone. He said turn the receiver off for the night, and the channels should be back by the morning. Yeesh.

But now that they have my support call logged in their system, I should be able to talk to someone higher up tomorrow when it flakes out again. At least they can tell me that my receiver is on its way out. :rolleyes:

This is pretty pathetic. One might expect a hard drive to crash after 3 years, but a tuner chip should "never" be the cause of a PVR's demise. Such poor design.

I'll be looking to replace my 5100 soon, hopefully before it dies completely. I don't want to drop $300 on a new PVR, nor do I want to get a refurb that will have the same problem. If I do stay with ExpressVU, I will probably just get a new 4100 receiver and set up a MythTV box. I've been wanting to do that for some time now anyway. I am after all, a geek. :)
 

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put on replacement chip today

Today, I had my buddy who changed his own chip, walk me through changing one on my 5100.
It's Conexant (sp?) 24108, as I recall... or that is the replacement chip. (Search the literature)
This applies to old 3100's and 5100's.

After removing the board from the case (major fun), the chip was surrounded with high temperature tape, leaving only the chip and pins exposed.
This is on the top of the board.
The, the chip was warmed with a controlled temperature heat gun, with the air flow set to low (so as to not blow any lose parts off the board).
Once the chip was up to temperature, it was picked off with tweezers, or flipped off with a soldering pick.
The area of the board under the chip was verified to have only a light coating of solder.
The pads where the pins solder down were cleaned with solder wick to remove excess solder - only a little was left.
The board was fluxed to encourage proper adhesion with the new chip.

Instead of using a new chip (they got lost, don't ask), I removed an identical chip from a DirecTV receiver which was on hand.
Don't assume all DTV models have the right chip. But, this one had a 2-year newer date code.
The leads were cleaned with a hot iron and flux.

The chip was located onto the board to be repaired, and the leads lined up with the pads.
The board and pads had a medium application of flux.
Often, you tack-solder a few leads to hold the chip in place.
The board was again re-heated with the hot air gun.
But only about a 1cm area , bounded by the protective tape, was heated.
Once the solder was up to temperature, and with the aid of the flux on the leads and under the chip, everything reflowed.

You don't want much solder under the chip, as it will squish out at this point.
The chip bonds to the board, and the leads flow to their pads.
Remove heat and let cool naturally for 10 minutes.
Visually inspect for lead-to-lead short.
If okay, use flux remover and wash the area around the chip.

Yes, the chip survives the top-heating and the solder melting under the part!

Most important tool/skill is "experience".
Time? About 20 minutes.
Cost? Half of a $35 Mexican dinner (I ate the other half, so no complaints)

I re-assembled the PVR, put the card back in, connected it to the LNB, and it came up without problem.
It's been running about 5 hours, and I expect no more trouble for the life of the equipment.

Hope this gives some folks encouragement, but if you don't know how to work with surface mount parts, leave it alone !


...now where did I put that bag of new chips...?...?...? ;)
 

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You/your buddy wouldn't happen to be on the West Coast, would you? :)

Anyone know of someone on Vancouver Island who possesses skill/experience with these things?
 

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I don't necessarily believe this workaround will really solve anything, as the problem seems to be a tuner chip/soldering one, but I was given the following suggestion from a Bell TS rep.

Disconnect the satellite cable from the receiver and do a front panel reset. Then wait until the acquiring satellite signal screen comes back up and reconnect the cable.

According to this guy there is a software problem with the 5100 trying over and over again to download software and this is a way to clear out the memory and stop it from doing so. His suggestion was in response to the signal problem I described to him (the one being discussed in this thread).

I don't have a way currently to check this on mine, but for someone who has still got their 5100 hooked up, it can't hurt.

Steve
 

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Can you possibly use a butane torch to heat and try to reseat the chip? Anyone have any pics of the chip on the board for the 5100?
 

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The air from a controlled-temperature heat gun is set around 800 degrees F to melt the 700 degree solder.
If you are lucky, the board may have low temperature solder, so that might reduce the necessary temp by as much as 200 degrees.
The hot air gun is not held in place, so much as used to 'brush' the area, once you have it up to sufficient temperature to melt the solder.

The heat of the blowtorch is what? 1200 F ? 2000 F ?
I really think it's the wrong tool for the job.
The case of the chip is a high temperature plastic, but not that high.
Damage to surrounding parts is assured with a torch.
No, I don't think any sort of torch is even the "tool of last resort", by any means.
 

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Anole said:
The air from a controlled-temperature heat gun is set around 800 degrees F to melt the 700 degree solder.
If you are lucky, the board may have low temperature solder, so that might reduce the necessary temp by as much as 200 degrees.
The hot air gun is not held in place, so much as used to 'brush' the area, once you have it up to sufficient temperature to melt the solder.

The heat of the blowtorch is what? 1200 F ? 2000 F ?
I really think it's the wrong tool for the job.
The case of the chip is a high temperature plastic, but not that high.
Damage to surrounding parts is assured with a torch.
No, I don't think any sort of torch is even the "tool of last resort", by any means.
Ok thanks. I tried heating the chip with soldering iron set to 700F but didnt seem to help. The 5100 detects no signal at all now and does even pass the switch test so its junk at this point. Already bought a new 5900 but was hoping to get the 5100 living again.
 

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Hi there,

I've had this problem also. I used a Weller butane soldering iron with the hot air attachment and heated the pins along the chip. The solder must have reflowed because it has been fine for close to 1 year now. Just my 0.02... good luck.
 

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synch problems

Just got a 4100 last weekend. After installing it we have noticed the unit is out of synch. The audio is about 15 frames to 1 seconds behind video. Checked our PVR and seem to have similar problems there as well. Asnyone had experience with sych problems? I spoke to BEV, they had me unplug and reset the units. Doesn't seem to work though.
 

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I have had a 5100 for 4ish years now (whenever they first went on sale) and the thing has been a mess ever since I started with them. I bought one just before I moved from my last residence. I hooked it up and only got 1/2 my channels. Signal strength was dismal. I lived in the middle of nowhere so when I called Bell they said the receiver was fine and that it was just because of where I lived. I wasn't happy with the advice but eh I was living in an area where you could only get about 85% with a 1.2M dish and moving to Barrie, ON so I figured not so great signal strength may not be that bad.

Was 6 months before I could get a new dish installed and low and behold only getting about 85% on the 5100. I actually had the installer use the 5100 to fine tune the signal. After he finally gave up as he couldn't get it any higher I hooked up my 2700 and I got 98-99%. Tried to live with the 5100 but it shut itself off from time to time, missed recording programs and did other random flaky things. Called Bell adn of coarse the "new receiver just never used" arguement got me nowhere so after about 6 hours combined of my wife tryings things with BEV over the phone I shipped the thing back and they sent me a refurb.

Refurb was just a big of a hunk of junk. By the time we got fed up with the 2nd one our warrenty was done so we just decided to live with it having to reset it every couple days and losing all programming if someone fart within 10' of the dish.

BEV called one day to see if we wanted to subsribe to their idiot proof warrenty. Something like $4 a month you get all your receivers convered. We agreed and about an hour after we were signed up we called back to have our 2nd 5100 shipped back.

We are on our 3rd and it still has poor signal quality, has to be reset from time to time and randomly just does other weird things. It's use will be limited from now on as we just picked up a 9200 but I would never venture near a 5100. 3/3 being horrible receivers is more than a coincidence.

And yes my train of thought does have a caboose. :D
 

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5100 PVR

Hi,

I'm a noob to the PVR world, I still haven't dived into the HD world. Don't have the TV right now to make it worth it. My question is. Has anyone experienced weird glitching happening with a 5100? It gives me the 015 error which states that it can't find the satellite signal and the progress just stays still, but my picture comes up for a second and then again it can't find the signal.

Bell did all the necessary upgrades, hard reboots several times. It fixes it for a bit, but then the glitching starts all over again. They said the receiver is done and to go buy an HD. Right now, that's not a choice. I have no problem soldering and working on any kind of hardware. Is there a fix for this type of thing?, or is this just the Hard drive needing to be reformatted?

I plugged in my old 2700 and my signal is perfect, but I really like the 5100. It has the UHF remote, which apparently Bell doesn't offer anymore. I'll switch to HD eventually, but probably not for about a year at least.

any help sending me to some info that has already been posted etc...would be appreciated.
 
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