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ScaryBob said:
That's not quite correct
Yes it is. The rules regarding kitchen receptacles at 20A are as follows: Rule 26-710(b) & 26-726
  • must use #12 copper supply cable
  • must use a 20A fuse or breaker
  • must use a CSA Configuration 5-20RA T-slot receptacle
  • adjacent plugs must not be supplied with the same circuit
  • the number and placement of plugs is the same as in 15A kitchen rules
Always consult the code book. BTW, all Provincial Electrical Codes are based directly on the Canadian Electrical Code with minor differences per each version.
 

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But that's not what you said originally and I was also referring to the 15a circuits as well. The T slot are a 15a/20a combination. You originally said "20A slot type" which are incompatible with standard 15a slot types. 20a slots look lit this '--", 15a look like this '||' and 15a/20a look like two opposing T's on edge, something like this '┤├'.
 

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I am happy to quote the rules from the book as required, and I stand by all my posts in this thread exactly as I wrote them.

Metallo, either wire your house properly or stop asking how to cheat the Electrical Code.
 

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Metallo quote:"I do not see any problem in:

1) Changing the wiring to some receptacles with appropriate cabling for 240V
2) 60Hz is not an issue, most of my stuff will self adjust electronically, it used to be an issue for some equipment 40 years ago, not during the last 20 years.
3) 240V dangerous? Not at all, it is not anywhere else in the world, especially if well marked no problem.

So, I am just asking which size the wires have to be according to the use I will do as described in my first mail.

Why cannot I use the Canadian plugs?
I can change the cord plugs of my electronics accordingly, no adapters.

Hope I made things clearer."

------------------------------------------

You right there stated you would use the Canadian plugs(inferring existing) but wire 240. That IS DANGEROUS. We Canadians assume 120 volt 15 amp when we see those plugs and plug in 120 volt 60hz stuff. You are talking about providing 240volts to those plugs and changing the plugs on your equipment. That is completely illegal. It's not the 240 that is dangerous or illegal perhaps but your suggested approach is completely both dangerous and illegal.
Don't be so stubborn. You need a legal solution that only a top electrician can provide(possibly).
It does not matter if the EU code is stricter than the Can. code. The Can. code is the only acceptable code here. Period. Any DIY mod not following the strict code is verboten.:eek::)

You came onto a North American forum and got honest opinions. Don't get upset because they don't agree with your opinions.

I do not want to be the visitor or next home owner that plugs my 120V 60Hz razor into your 240V (standard Cdn 120 15a receptacle!!!!
 

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For the safety of the OP and the people around him, Digital Home encourages the OP to abide by the Canadian electrical code.

Please note that Digital Home will not allow discussions of how to subvert rules whose disregard could result in serious injury.

If you'd like to discuss the proper application of the electrical code then please post, however, any future posts discussing how to subvert electrical codes will be removed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Please, would anybody point me to a sentence I wrote where I state that I want to do things against the code?

Seriously, I do not understand why you guys continue to tell me what it is implicit for me.

I can only think the misunderstanding is due to English not being my mother tongue, otherwise I really cannot explain what leads you to think I want to go against the code.

Again, point me to any sentence that can lead you to think so and I will promptly explain what I meant in order to avoid additional doubts.

Gzink:You right there stated you would use the Canadian plugs(inferring existing) but wire 240. That IS DANGEROUS. We Canadians assume 120 volt 15 amp when we see those plugs and plug in 120 volt 60hz stuff. You are talking about providing 240volts to those plugs and changing the plugs on your equipment. That is completely illegal. It's not the 240 that is dangerous or illegal perhaps but your suggested approach is completely both dangerous and illegal.
Don't be so stubborn. You need a legal solution that only a top electrician can provide(possibly).
OK, so can you anticipate me what would be the proper way to have some 240V receptacles in my home? I am off to buy the code today, so you may help to let me interpret it correctly.

Tell me where I am wrong:

1) There is an electric panel
2) There is a hole in the wall with a receptacle

Questions (and not statements):

1)
Can I just take away a chosen 110V receptacle from the wall together with its wiring and substitute it with a
240V receptacle? BTW, receptacle has to be totally independent, a direct circuit from wall to service panel, no other wiring going to any other receptacles.
I assume this is a yes, if not please tell me why.

2)
If yes, can I install new wires suitable for 240V from the 240V receptacles to the electric panel?

3)
Can I connect properly those wires to a dual-pole breaker and snap it in the service panel?

I think the misunderstanding came up because I did not specify that together with the wiring I want to change the receptacles to 240V ones, that was obvious for me.
Please, let me know if there is anything wrong in the above mentioned procedure.

Thank you
Alex
 

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Yes, you, or an electrician can, provied the end result meets electrical code, meaning you or the electrician uses Canadian style 240V receptacles, and appropriate breakers and wires, and 120V receptacles remain where they need to be by the code that governs them. Your appliances would need matching 240V plugs fitted.

You should now (although it wasn't particularily clear), that Canadian 240V is centre grounded/neutral, while UK/European 240V is end grounded. That means, in Canada, that both prongs will be hot. Nome appliances may not be configured to work with that safely. Not to mention the whole notion of using appliances that are not approved by bodies recognized by the Canadian authorities.

On electrical code: The code in BC is a lot closer to that in Nova Scotia than that in UK/Europe. Not to mention practices and color standards are different.

You can likely find your building plans at your local registry or building code office. I never really seen electrical plans for detached homes, beyond standard lighting and receptacle layouts; the actual wiring designed in-place by the electrician doing the wiring, using electrical code and certain methods and practices to guide him or her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Yes, you, or an electrician can, provied the end result meets electrical code, meaning you or the electrician uses Canadian style 240V receptacles, and appropriate breakers and wires, and 120V receptacles remain where they need to be by the code that governs them. Your appliances would need matching 240V plugs fitted.
I agree and see that we start to understand each other. Thanks

You should now (although it wasn't particularily clear), that Canadian 240V is centre grounded/neutral, while UK/European 240V is end grounded. That means, in Canada, that both prongs will be hot. Nome appliances may not be configured to work with that safely. Not to mention the whole notion of using appliances that are not approved by bodies recognized by the Canadian authorities.

On electrical code: The code in BC is a lot closer to that in Nova Scotia than that in UK/Europe. Not to mention practices and color standards are different.

You can likely find your building plans at your local registry or building code office. I never really seen electrical plans for detached homes, beyond standard lighting and receptacle layouts; the actual wiring designed in-place by the electrician doing the wiring, using electrical code and certain methods and practices to guide him or her.
Yes, I am perfectly aware of all the points you just mentioned.

Alex
 

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Metallo said:
I am off to buy the code today
Excellent, I'm glad that you are doing that. :) Also if you can post the brand, model number, and total/unused number of slots of your power panel here we can offer better advice. Do you have standard 240VAC/100A service from the hydro provider NB Power?
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Quote from the inspector:

The house is serviced with a 200 Amp / 240 Volt electrical system and power is distributed through the home via a circuit breaker equipped panel located in the basement.
There is space available for more circuit breakers in the distribution panel.
All the conductors/wires are copper and everything appears to be in order.

I will move into the new home in 10 days, but I do have a picture of the service panel, it is written CSR-25k, does it tell you anything?

Alex
 

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Good, that is a lot of energy to work with for the future.

The brand and model number of the power panel is important if you can get it because different brands use different means of providing 240V through breakers. For instance if it is a Federal Pioneer with Stab-lok breakers there is a trick to that, while a SquareD or a GE is easy.
 

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Metallo, I think what you need to do if you are dead set on using your appliances is have them all certified and get CSA approval. One such company we use here in Calgary is I.T.S. Inspections, I would think there should be several such company's in your area. If you can get CSA stickers there are provision's in the CEC for you to wire them to code.
 

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Just a little "repeat" perhaps. You are talking about replacing the receptacles, so good, but the point was also made that you must do that but still retain code compliance. The only receptacles you can replace are "excess" ones. If you eliminate the 12 foot requirement or any other by changing the receptacles that will be against the code.
Just a caution here! Devices lacking "CSA or UL" is another good point.
 

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gbuchana said:
The one like this (- -) is 15A 240V.
A 15A 120V is (| |)
15A/20A 120V is (| ├)
20A 120V is (| -)
You are most likely correct. It's been a few years since I worked with any of these or saw the chart. The odd thing is that I looked at a 120v 15a/20a GFI receptacle in HD not long ago and it appeared to have the 2 T configuration.
 

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Metallo, I think what you need to do if you are dead set on using your appliances is have them all certified and get CSA approval. One such company we use here in Calgary is I.T.S. Inspections, I would think there should be several such company's in your area. If you can get CSA stickers there are provision's in the CEC for you to wire them to code.
How about getting a universal receptacle (such as a Vimar model 1298) certified by a CSA recognised lab? Seems to me that could satisfy most concerns providing it's properly installed.

http://en.vimar.eu/index.php?l=en&m...alog&event=__default&menuid=434&content=rapid
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Hi folks,

the certification is something I cannot check at the moment, but I am not too much concerned because we are talking about hi-end equipment and in addition, it has already passed all the Canadian custom controls, they got all sorts of documentation from me and they told me everything was in order. They would not allow things if not Canadian compliant.

Today I went to shop at HomeDepot, I have spotted a receptacle that seems to be ideal for the scope: Single or duplex 6-15R and also the plug 6-15P

Maybe those are the ones I should use?

99semaj:
Indeed a good spot the Vimar stuff, in addition it would be much cheaper for me to get and I would not need to change any of my existing cord plugs.
I will investigate further on this. Thanks

Regards,
Alex
 

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Hi folks,

the certification is something I cannot check at the moment, but I am not too much concerned because we are talking about hi-end equipment and in addition, it has already passed all the Canadian custom controls, they got all sorts of documentation from me and they told me everything was in order. They would not allow things if not Canadian compliant.
Just because something is legal to import into Canada doesn't mean it is legal to use it. I understand that CBSA enforces Health Canada's Hazardous Products Act, and that it refers importers to Industry Canada regarding use of radio equipment, but I don't know that it actually enforces the Canadian Electrical Code or any of its provincial derivatives.

In a federal system, the border controls do not always take into account provincial differences (except for tobacco and liquor control.)
 

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Metallo said:
They would not allow things if not Canadian compliant.
That's not the job of customs.
tvlurker said:
Just because something is legal to import into Canada doesn't mean it is legal to use it
Exactly. For example, I can import any vehicle from anywhere in the world and get Canada Customs clearance, but only Transport Canada and Provincial government motor vehicle regulators can certify that it is acceptable to be allowed on the road. Even then, insurance companies might not want to risk insuring it.

CSA and/or UL are the standards bodies that certify compliance of electrical and electronic equipment with Canadian codes. Both organizations have tight affiliations with the insurance industry. If your insurance company finds out that you are not using CSA/UL certified equipment they will not cover that stuff or pay out for damage that it might cause.

Have you considered selling your equipment back in your country of origin and purchasing Canadian-market equipment? You'd have no problems with certifications and you would not need to be thinking about non-standard wiring. You would have warranty coverage on it too.
 

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For example, customs will allow you to bring in 240V equipment, on the assumption that you will power it through CSA/UL-listed transformers, not necessarily by re-wirng the house.

(Note, I am not saying that you cannot legally do something similar to what you are proposing, it's just that you have to be very careful.)
 
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