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jgourlie 2015-03-18 03:05 PM

For amp assign I believe I have it as 9.1 with front set as atmos enabled. ( I will have to double check)

My ceiling is 8ft. I am just using 2 410's on the front speakers. I have Energy Di-pole rear surrounds that bounce off the ceiling so rear atmos isn't going to work for me.

This will help...I had the same problem with the 410's not sounding good, or not even being able to hear them.

The solution is you have to tilt them. My main seating position is 14ft away from my front speakers. I have the rear of the 410's about 4inches off the speaker ( I built a wood wedge to accomplish this)

What I did was take the foam circles that you put under your furniture to not scratch the floor and kept stacking them under the rear of the 410's and kept playing the atmos demo clips over and over until I felt that I could hear the sound above me. Once I found the sweet spot I built the wood blocks.

I will try and take a picture so you can understand what I am trying to say if it isn't clear.

I also turned up the volume of the 410's about 4db's for tv and I think 8db's for blu-rays. I quite like the sound above me so I like it a bit louder from the 410's.

Don't give up on the 410's, I know everyone trashes them, but I am very happy with mine once I got them setup correctly. There was no way I was going to do in-ceiling speakers as my room is soundproofed and I didn't want to run speaker wires up the wall to do mounted speakers on the ceiling.
There was also no way that my wife was going to let me spend $500 on the more expensive atmos enabled modules, so I was forced to make the 410's work and with some tinkering I got them setup pretty dang good.

The reason how I knew that they had to be tilted is because I read somewhere they are designed for a 10ft room with the main listening position 5ft away. So the angle of the speaker inside the module is at I believe 20 degrees which would bounce off the ceiling to a spot 5ft away. So for me it only made logical sense that I had to tilt the speaker to bounce off the ceiling further into the room in my case at about 12ft to get to my seat at 14ft.

I bet if you were to put the speakers back onto your front speakers and then sit on the floor 5ft from the front speakers it would sound awesome.

Anyways I am babbling, I will try and get a picture of my setup for you.

Let me know if I can help any further????

I am excited for you once you get them setup....Atmos material still blows my mind when I watch everytime!!!

jgourlie 2015-03-18 05:32 PM

wildswing 2015-03-18 10:40 PM

Yes it does. Thanks. No problem with the babbling. It's all good info. Now I know I'm on the right track. It's just a mater of angles and volume. I'll keep at it.

As-is I have 7.1.4 set up with an extra amp. DTS comes through the rears and Atmos comes through the surround 410s, which due to a ceiling bulkhead, I have set up beside the rear surrounds. Unfortunately all Dolby encoding make sound come out the 410 surrounds as well. The "above" sound does sound a little behind me even after messing with the gains. Maybe I'll try just 7.1.2.

Strange how Dolby shows front and rear Atmos enabled speakers (for a 4 speaker setup), but the 4100 does not have that arrangement in the amp assign, only top front and surround. Maybe I'll give them a shot on the sides again.

You said you have gains adjusted different for tv and movies. How do you do that?

wildswing 2015-03-18 10:42 PM

Sorry forgot to ask about your 410 tilt setup. You do not hear any direct sound from the speakers even with that much tilt? Are they above your head? Seems my first reply is awaiting moderation.

jgourlie 2015-03-19 02:46 AM

your 4100 can only do 5.1.4. That maybe why you are having some issues.
You can do 7.1.4 but not at the same time. You would have to goto an x5200 to be able to run 7.1.4 at the same time.

Here is how I would set it up for now to get things working:
5.1.4 setup.
Choose 9.1 Amp Assign.
Use your amp in height 2 pre-out with the rear 410 atmos modules connected to it.
Set Height speakers to using Dolby speakers
Then Choose
Front Dolby & surr dolby option

You should be all good to go.

The other way you could do it is go 7.1.2 and keep your surround back speakers and just have the 2 front onkyo 410's for atmos. It's too bad the x4100 can't process more than 9 speakers at a time as a 7.1.4 setup would be sweet.

To raise the volume based on inputs, I just hit the option button on the remote and it allows you to adjust the volume for all your speakers for that particular input.

Hope that helps?

The speakers are just sitting on top of my front tower speakers when I am sitting I guess technically they are above my head but probably by only 6 inches or so. As a result there isn't any direct sound because they are above my head. But rest assured I measured the angles and the speaker is still pointed at the roof in front of my seats. I really messes with your eye, but the angles work out. I even did some crazy math and figured out that my 410's are angled at 35 degrees as opposed to the 20 degrees they are angled if the box is sitting flat. The extra 15 degrees is what projects the sound out further into the room.

Blackloz 2015-03-19 03:05 PM

I'm going to be setting up my Atmos system on Sunday, I'm hoping everything goes smooth.

jgourlie 2015-03-19 03:10 PM

What kind of system did you get?

wildswing 2015-03-19 08:22 PM


Sorry, my bad for not explaining further. When I said I was set up as 7.1.4, I meant that's how the speakers are laid out. I've already done as you suggested. Great minds think alike, I guess. My Speaker/amp assign is:

Assign Mode - 9.1
Height Speakers - using Dolby speakers
Height Layout - Front and surround Dolby
Pre-out - Surround Dolby

I know they all won't work at the same time. According to the manual it decides based on what speakers you've told it you have. It seems to do that. DTX plays as one dimensional 7.1. Any Dolby plays as two dimensional 5.1.4, which in cases where it's not Atmos, hearing surround sound from the 410s is a little odd. IMO, the 410s should only play when there's Atmos encoding, not just any Dolby.

Oh ya, full time 7.1.4 would be schweet! I bought the 4100 right after Christmas because it was on sale. As with every other toy I've bought, after learning just a bit, I realize I didn't buy enough. I bought the 302, and now wish I would have forked out for the 347 stroker :)

Thanks for the volume tip and details on the angles. I'll keep plugging away. Right now it's time to tear it all apart and start the cosmetic & acoustic work on the room. My set up has only been a trial run to make sure everything works. I'll be back in a couple weeks when I've made more progress. Thanks again for all your info. You've been a huge help.

Blackloz 2015-03-19 11:54 PM


Originally Posted by jgourlie (Post 2458041)
What kind of system did you get?

For my setup I got a Onkyo tx-nr 1030, I upgraded my 5.1 which are all Cerwin-Vega CLS series, 2 new XLS 12 -3ways for the front and the XLS-6C center channel. I stayed with my two CLS-6 for the rear and my CLS-12S for sub #1. Then got 4 atrium polk audio speakers for the ceiling @$199/pair and a 8" polk audio sub for sub #2(due to room constraints) my tv is a Sony KDL60W840B although I almost bought a 4K Panasonic today, it was a close call, but I held off for now. Since the Sharp TV line is now discontinued in Canada we won't be seeing any new models from them, so it will be Sony or Panasonic for me.

Blackloz 2015-03-23 08:56 PM

Well I got everything all set up and its great, I'm liking Atmos quite a bit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

splinterdog 2015-05-21 05:19 PM

Dolby Atmos
Do you need specific speakers to get true Dolby atmos affects ? I am considering getting an Onkyo receiver that is Atmos ready but i am not clear on whether i need new speakers or do i just have to add new ones on my ceiling and also need a recommendation on some quality in wall speakers

57 2015-05-21 06:30 PM

Your post was moved to this existing thread. Check out the earlier posts, especially post 15 which has links to the Dolby Atmos site. There are several different configurations that you can have, so you don't need specific types of speakers, but some are specially designed if you don't wish to have additional speakers.


A 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 system uses two ceiling speakers, or two Dolby Atmos enabled speakers or modules. A 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 system uses four ceiling speakers, or four Dolby Atmos enabled speakers or modules. A 9.1.2 system adds a pair of front wide speakers to a 7.1.2 layout.
You need to tell us your budget for in-wall speakers. They range from very inexpensive but listenable, especially for non-critical applications (from say Monoprice or similar) to excellent and expensive.

reidw 2016-07-26 10:52 AM

A question. I've got four small full range bookshelf speakers gathering dust. I'm planning on getting a new 7.1.4 AVR this fall. Obviously my interest is in Dolby Atmos and the add-on speakers that can be placed on top of existing surround and front speakers. My four bookshelf speakers would fit on top of my existing speakers. If I pointed them skyward and connected them to my new AVR would they be good enough to produce the ATMOS effects or do I really need to buy ATMOS dedicated speakers? Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.

57 2016-07-26 03:56 PM

That should work since some dedicated ATMOS speakers have (built-in) speakers on them that do something similar (aim up at an angle). Obviously, you may get a better effect if the separate fronts & backs were mounted higher on the wall, or perhaps with in-ceiling speakers.

reidw 2016-07-26 05:07 PM

Thanks 57. Unfortunately in ceiling speakers aren't an option for me so I'm trying to go the up firing route without having to buy new basic speakers. It's a bit of kludgey solution but as they say "if it works ..."

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