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-   OTA Station & Network Operational Status (https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/220-ota-station-network-operational-status/)
-   -   CBC/SRC DTV Transition Status (closed) (https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/220-ota-station-network-operational-status/123571-cbc-src-dtv-transition-status-closed.html)

Billsmith 2010-06-02 12:53 PM

CBC/SRC DTV Transition Status (closed)
 
I wonder what the situation is with CBC network transmissions. For example: the last thing I heard a couple of months ago in the case of Calgary was that it is next on the list for DTV. Maybe there is something in the works?? The question that I have is will there be a "flash cut" back to the original channel or a new temporary UHF assignment for example?

Billsmith 2010-06-02 01:27 PM

Replace or revamp? This is the question?
 
There simply must be CBC network transmitters can be re-purposed for digital operation. Surely this will determine the need for transitional frequencies versus new equipment using new UHF frequencies assuming the trend to move to UHF.

roger1818 2010-06-02 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billsmith (Post 1108111)
There simply must be CBC network transmitters can be re-purposed for digital operation.

Newer equipment can sometimes be re-purposed but older equipment often can't. For example older amplifiers would amplify the specific carrier frequencies used for NTSC rather than the entire 6MHz band used for ATSC.

Quote:

Surely this will determine the need for transitional frequencies versus new equipment using new UHF frequencies assuming the trend to move to UHF.
The trend is away from VHF-LO (channels 2-6). Since VHF-HI is already pretty much full, UHF is typically the only place they can go. If they can/want to use the same channel for DTV pre and post transition, they can easily start broadcasting early. If they aren't, it makes things a bit more complicated.

Billsmith 2010-06-02 02:25 PM

Quote:

Newer equipment can sometimes be re-purposed but older equipment often can't. For example older amplifiers would amplify the specific carrier frequencies used for NTSC rather than the entire 6MHz band used for ATSC.
OK - but I guess in any case they would consult with the OEM as he/she will need to assist with the assessment and/or supply services and/or upgrade components. I guess that NTSC uses a lower visual bandwidth 5.5Mhz as the stations invariably use separate sound transmitters on a dedicated portion of the channel feeding the same antenna through a combiner.

Quote:

The trend is away from VHF-LO (channels 2-6). Since VHF-HI is already pretty much full, UHF is typically the only place they can go.
But surely UHF is the preferred spot due to probable future cell phone reception and other new technologies? Sure VHF-LO is finished. In the UK both VHF LO and HI are no longer used for TV broadcast purposes (since 1985) - way ahead of their time, wot?

Wonder what the network policy of CBC is in this regard? ;) :confused:

roger1818 2010-06-02 06:40 PM

The attraction of VHF is it uses much less power to cover the same area and it propagates through trees much better, so it is best for rural reception. OTOH, UHF propagates through buildings better so it is best for urban reception. Which is best depends on who they want to target.

tvlurker 2010-06-03 09:02 AM

I know that in the fifties and sixties, this used to be the case, but AFAIK, more modern transmitting plant combines the NTSC video VSB and audio FM components at baseband level, and not at the RF combiner level.

roger1818 2010-06-03 12:16 PM

True, but I gather the CBC has a lot of this old equipment still in active use. They have a lot of transmitters nation wide and to upgrade them all would be prohibitively expensive.

stampeder 2010-06-03 12:21 PM

Assuming they converted some of the existing analogue transmitters to digital they'd have to budget for the stockpiling and scavenging of a bunch of old analogue transmitters and gear for repair purposes because as time goes on manufacturers have either dropped much of it already or won't make a lot of that stuff anymore. That means storing all that gear somewhere and transporting it as needed.

Add in the power and size efficiencies of new digital gear and personally I see an abandonment of the old transmitters as a better economic rationalization than converting them to digital capability.




tvlurker 2010-06-03 01:31 PM

Even if the bulk of transmitters installed during CBC's Accelerated Coverage Plan (ACP) rush of the seventies were modern for their time, I believe most of these are nearing end-of-life anyway.

roger1818 2010-06-03 03:17 PM

Good point. I don't think the CBC has (or will get) the money to replace all of these transmitters. I seem to remember reading that the CBC plans to shut down their remote transmitters as they die. When this happens, it will be interesting to see if there is a public outcry to have them replaced. This probably depends if an alternate technology (such as free to air or free DTH) takes its place. This extends beyond TV and includes radio as well.

tvlurker 2010-06-03 04:14 PM

Well, whatever outcry that may has resulted from the loss of CBC-TV OTA in Kamloops, Okanagan, Medicine Hat, and perhaps soon in Thunder Bay has not had any effect, and these locations have more voters than, say, Attawapiskat.

roger1818 2010-06-03 05:10 PM

In those cases it is hard to blame CBC as they were affiliate stations that decided to change their affiliation, so the transmitter is still operational (it just isn't affiliated with the CBC). Things would be a bit different if the CBC decided to shut down an existing transmitter completely, leaving a community without television.

Billsmith 2010-06-03 07:57 PM

When the BBC and IBA finished with the old VHF transmitters in the early 80's most of them were scrapped as they weren't good for any further service. AFAIK there were some items placed in museums including an old Lo band 405 line unit 5Kw or so vision transmitter. Perhaps some of the older CBC gear can be or could have been donated to third world countries?

roger1818 2010-06-04 11:34 AM

Thinking more about it, a better example would be Brandon when CTVgm shut down CKX-TV (a CBC affiliate) making CBC basically unavailable in Brandon OTA (without great heroics). It was still an affiliate though and thus CTVgm took the blame. I don't think they mind though as they wanted a poster child for their Save Local TV campaign.

Purely speculation on my part, but Kingston, Peterborough and Oshawa may also lose their CBC stations if Corus (owned by J.R. Shaw) decides to make them Global affiliates if the CRTC approves the purchase of GlobalTV by Shaw Communications.

I still say it will become a much bigger story when the CBC starts to shut down their own transmitters, even if they serve smaller populations, since they are a crown corporation. There is more public sympathy for private broadcasters as they need to make money.

downbeat 2010-08-06 05:05 PM

CBC won't meet digital transition deadline
 
See here for news release:
http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/newsr...20100806.shtml
Not particularly detailed, except we learn they won't be able to make the deadline for some markets. Synthesized from their list

• On the air by Aug. 31, 2011:
CBC: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton
SRC: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Quebec City, Rimouski, Trois-Rivières, Sherbrooke, Chicoutimi, Moncton

• On the air by Aug. 31, 2012:
CBC: Yellowknife, Regina, Winnipeg, Windsor, Saint-John/Fredericton, Charlottetown, Halifax, St. John’s
SRC: Vancouver, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg

The release says CBC has applied for extensions in those markets where the deadline can't be met.


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