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  Topic Review (Newest First)
2012-07-30 02:56 AM
stampeder Remember that when hard working people have their livelihoods ruined because their profit-making line has been shut down by management blunder it is no matter for jokes or silly hyperbole. The loss to Nokia and its employees is staggering and unjustifiable. For long-time Nokia customers in the S40 line who would have been gently eased into the Meltemi future goodness this is an utter loss of choice of their preferred products. Customer loyalty (which has been legendary for Nokia) has been completely tossed by the wayside in Elop's mad quest to focus on a Windows smartphone for one of the world's smaller markets. It is obscene.

2012-07-29 08:12 PM
Francois Caron Maybe the problem is that there was never a single leader who could grasp all of the individual elements required to design, manufacture and release a phone.

They don't have to be an engineer mind you. In fact, it's better that they NOT be an engineer at all! But you still need someone who has a basic understanding of what goes into the design, implementation, marketing and use of the product from beginning to end. Miss a step, and the future product may be doomed to failure.

What I've noticed about my N900 is that the software interface was a bit substandard, which is why in my video review of the N900 I recommended to the average user that they shop around. Someone missed couple of steps, and it had a domino effect on the failure of the phone.
2012-07-29 02:00 AM
Arthur Dent Nokia became a victim of its hardware engineers' lobby. They were the people who saw the presentation of the first iPhone in 2007, circulated an internal memo that it doesn't t have 3G and MMS, its camera sucks, and therefore can't be considered as a challenge at all.The CEOs back then listened to them and everybody went about their business as usual. That's why Nokia is what it is today.
The complete failure to see that exquisite design and intuitive user interface is much more important for commercial success than running benchmarks tests better, is what has prevented that same engineering crowd from realizing why open source Linux has been destroyed by Windows, although being free, stable and so on. Rather than facing this simple truth, those otherwise intelligent people bring up conspiracy theories involving Satan's children Microsoft and Apple, and how they destroyed all good in the world by using the satanic weapon "marketing", as well as other black magic.
There's also another group that as of July 2012 still claims that iPhones are inferior products, but I'd rather not comment on that.
2012-07-29 01:28 AM
poutanen ^^^ Fair enough, my original post had more to do with marketing being Nokia's downfall vs. it's actual products.

(Apple and HD were just examples of inferior products with VERY successful marketing)
2012-07-29 01:12 AM
TorontoColin Let's please avoid discussing the merits of Apple devices here.
2012-07-28 09:55 PM
poutanen You mean the smartphone that you can't hold a certain way or it'll lose signal? And the tablet that doesn't support flash? And the OS that is tied to a single program for all media transfer? It is certainly an inferior product to many of it's competition... Yet Apples stock remains at $600 or so and Nokia's is at $2.00

I used to own Apple products and I'll pass thanks!
2012-07-28 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by poutanen View Post
Just as Apple and Harley Davidson have been marketing successes (instead of product successes) I feel that Nokia has been a marketing failure for the last 5+ years.
Heh, heh, hold on a second. yes, Harley Davidson is a classic example of bad product, strong marketing (the HD museum in Milwaukee actually states this matter-of-factly), but Apple doesnt make bad products. Granted, they are not "jesus phone" miracle products like some what would have you beleive, but they are elegant and well-built.
2012-07-28 07:32 PM
Arthur Dent Two shocking pieces of news I learned from the last posts:

1. Nokia cancelled S40.
2. Nokia still had production facilities in Finland.

I searched the Internet right away and it turns out that 1 is just not correct.
2 apparently is true, because the news is that the last 780 workers in Salo are losing their jobs. 10,000 more to lose their jobs worldwide too, so the Finnish layoffs are not exactly the apocalypse that somebody here presented it as. I have also never seen a "Made in Finland" Nokia phone in my life.
I will stand fully corrected if those 780 workers in Salo were the last and only ones that produced S40 phones, but stampeder will have to present some proof of that. Hopefully not from his favorite blog bookmark.
2012-07-28 07:09 PM
poutanen Just as Apple and Harley Davidson have been marketing successes (instead of product successes) I feel that Nokia has been a marketing failure for the last 5+ years.

I was on an E71 prior to my current N8 and have been happy with both of their performance compared to comparable models of the day. My N8 is arguably still more capable than an iPhone or the Galaxy SII (have many friends who have both and we compare them all the time).

Unfortunately in Canada if you wanted an N8 you HAD to go with Rogers. That's pathetic. Now the 808 is out and no carrier in North America has got it. I'd rather a symbian beast than a WP/iOS/Droid clunker any day, but it has got to the point that people think Symbian is some horrible OS from the days when trains were invented.

I just hope newegg stocks the 808 like they did with the N8, I'd love to pick one up one day. In the meantime I continue to use my N8 for everything including photos instead of my DSLR 95% of the time...
2012-07-28 05:24 PM
TorontoColin My response was directed at this.
Originally Posted by stampeder View Post
that cancellation of Meltemi ... looks even dumber than ever
The mistake was shutting down dumbphone production, not shutting down Meltemi. The former was not a result of the latter. They could (and probably should) have shut down production on Meltemi and still continued S40 dumbphone manufacturing.

Canceling Meltemi makes sense to me because I don't see the need for it if they could have continued using S40 indefinitely.

Canceling S40 manufacturing doesn't make sense to me, assuming it was profitable for them.

Edit: I say this assuming that the only advantages of Meltemi were in the end user experience. If it ran on cheaper hardware, or could lower costs for Nokia in some other way, then that would totally change my opinion on it.
2012-07-28 05:13 PM
stampeder I'm not getting your point, then. The means of producing those phones is now gone. The projects related to keeping those market segments are now gone. The manufacturing sites and the personnel are now gone too.

2012-07-28 04:57 PM
TorontoColin That's a whole different issue though. Again, my point is that the cancellation of Meltemi itself isn't what killed their dumbphone sales, and bringing Meltemi to market wouldn't have saved their dumbphone sales.

Shutting down S40 device manufacturing was a mistake. Shutting down development on a dumbphone OS when they already had a serviceable one available was not a mistake, since I can't see how bringing Meltemi to market would have had a significant impact on their dumbphone sales.
2012-07-28 04:48 PM
stampeder The small city of Salo, Finland is/was home to a huge manufacturing operation, cranking out S40 and S60 phones like clockwork. The future was to be Meego and Meltemi. The factories have been shut down and the employees released.

2012-07-28 04:36 PM
TorontoColin That's not what I meant though. If they wanted to, can they make S40 phones still?

I just don't see the need to spend resources on a dumbphone OS, even if they want to stay in that market.
2012-07-28 04:31 PM
Smartphones In Perspective

Can they not just continue making S40 phones?
Nope, Elop has killed anything that is not WP7 (Microsoft has killed WP7) or WP8. Completely senseless...
It seems to me like these are the kind of people who just want their phone to make phone calls
To geeks in North America, smartphones seem like the be all, end all of mobile devices, but just like Apple sells a range of iPods and how there is a wide range of Windows PC hardware out there for different uses and prices, the global mobile phone market also has it's market-based stratifications.

No matter what we in North America believe for ourselves (and North America is really not that big a market in the global scheme of things), Nokia had locked up a great market for cheap, solid, functional phones that were also music players, cameras, or other types. These were featurephones, with the dumbest of them being a simple dialing pad and small screen. That market was huge around the world and profitable for Nokia, and now it has been given away. Windows Phone 8 does not fit in such markets at all.

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