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  Topic Review (Newest First)
2015-04-23 06:54 PM
majortom Thanks for being so persistent Chris
Having looked at this thread again, I noticed the link to the ATSC PSIP Best Practices doc a few posts up has changed.
Here is the new Link if you or anyone else is interested in reading it.
2015-04-23 08:43 AM
Chris Sm
CBC DTV Program Guide Details - once more, politely

Yeah - I'm relighting an old thread. But the issue is still exactly the same and unchanged in all this time.

In March I politely wrote to Audience Relations regarding the difficulties in getting EPG details to display on LG televisions. I did hear back, and not just an offhand response - it actually included an LG television screenshot of EPG being displayed! Kudos to CBC Audience Relations for actually thinking about the problem.

So - rather than just flip back either "you are wrong" or "it is just broken", neither of which is quite true, I took the time to compose a longer, polite reply. I mined a lot of the detail in this forum (thanks! majortom) and tried to make clear that although the guide info was indeed there (as Audience Relations stated), it was the presence of additional info, not usually provided or required, that was confusing some televisions.

I did try to make clear that the problem (a CVCT, not normally needed or present in addition to the TVCT) was technical and low-level, and someone from Audience Relations might need to reach out to someone with more detailed ATSC OTA knowledge.

Finally, they did ask if I could get a firmware update. Since more recent sets (like theirs) can manage EPG without a problem, it's clearly possible, and this is a reasonable thing to ask. I did actually go look (there isn't one), and I pointed out that receivers without internet features were unlikely to get firmware updates.

So - here's hoping that some polite persistence might finally get this issue resolved.
2014-05-06 04:25 PM
CK18 I'm currently watching CBC Windsor and I see the Kids' CBC bug stuck on the screen even during the commercial breaks. During the shows, I'm seeing two bugs, the regular CBC bug and the Kids' CBC bug. Anyone else experiencing this problem today?
2014-02-03 01:47 PM
Cham Interesting...
CBC is working perfectly today!
Very nice to have it back.
-C.
2014-02-03 01:04 PM
robman50a I saw the EPG was back again last night when 'Dragon's Den' was on.
2014-02-01 07:21 PM
majortom I had noticed the EPG was broken on a local broadcaster here in Buffalo who runs two stations here, last week or so for a few days. It was broke in a similar fashion. ie I could see the guide using my PC tuner, but not on ANY TV in the house. I sent them an email over a weekend letting them know (wasn't expecting a response on a weekend). I came home on Monday and it was fixed.

I think all they need to do is follow the ATSC Best Practices and all would be good everywhere.
http://www.atsc.org/cms/standards/a_69-2009.pdf
2014-02-01 06:14 PM
Cham "Conclusion - CBC is broke"
I concur.
I think this might be the same issue I am having with CBC in Manitoba.
Been sending emails and phoning them to repair this and no response at all.
This is very irritating.
-C.
2014-01-12 01:08 PM
majortom Using the QAM tuner yesterday on our local cable system I noticed WGRZ was packaged such that it contains the EIT (guide info) from the OTA broadcast in it. It also has only a CVCT - Cable Virtual Channel Table in it's transport stream. No TVCT.
Tuning that physical channel on the LG TV results in proper display of the
EIT via Cable when only a CVCT is present.
So the TV works fine when only one or the other is present.

Since it's physically impossible to plug the CABLE TV in at the same time as an Antenna, it makes no sense that CBC includes both TVCT and CVCT in the same Transport Stream on both CBLT and CBLFT.

Conclusion - CBC is broke
2014-01-04 12:18 AM
majortom Some more observations from TV's point of view. I'm convinced if CBC would just put some pressure on their vendor to get rid of the CVCT in their PSIP table it would work on ALL TVs everywhere. Makes no sense to send a 'Cable Virtual Channel Table' on an Over The Air Broadcast. Since the cable company implements their own EPG system anyway. Further, no other broadcaster anywhere but CBC uses the CVCT, so ya can't exactly expect TV MFRs to accommodate something that's never gonna be used.
Serves no useful purpose and just leads to confusion... the ol 'KISS' approach should be utilised here.

I think I may be able fake out the tv in to decoding the right EIT.
When it's broke, I can change channels and come back to CBLT, and the guide works. I just watched it switch from Strombolopulous to CBC Music Backstage Pass. Not every time, but fairly consistent, say every 2 to 3 times, sometimes more. Would have to observe more at various times to be sure.

Filter While Broke -Note wrong EIT being filtered, it's in the future, and no EIT's
show up on the TVCT side (all on the CVCT side in PSIP debug menu 5)
Code:
1:ORG MAIN $ 80

[PSIP Debug Menu]
        0x01: Show PSIP Configuration
        0x02: Show PSI Information
        0x03: Show Time Information
        0x04: Show MGT Structure
        0x05: Show Pch
        0x06: Show Filter Information
        0x07: Show Eit Info partly
        0x08: Show Memory Info
        0x09: Show RRT
        0x20: Reset Channel
        0x21: Request Channel Info
        0x30: Toggle section dump
        0x40: current time by PSIP
        0x41: Get Program Guide
        0x42: Get DetailInformation
        0x50: Test SSU related API
        0x60: Dump PSIP DB
        0xff: Exit from PSIP debug Menu

Select Command: 0x6

*Enter PortId(0, 1): 0
=================================================================
i  FID     EID    PID   TID   TTYPE  TIDEXT   VERS  STATE  NAME
-----------------------------------------------------------------
0    0  0x00000003  0x0000  0x00  0x0ffc 0x0000  ~0x02   used  PAT  PSIP_REQ
1    1  0x00000002  0x1ffb  0xc7  0x0ffe 0x0000  ~0x08   used  MGT  PSIP_REQ
2    2  0x30000001  0x1008  0xcb  0x0102 0x0016  =0x0f   used  EIT-2  PSIP_REQ
3    3  0x20000002  0x0030  0x02  0x0ffd 0x0003  ~0x05   used  PMT  PSIP_REQ
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
=================================================================
Filter after flipping channels, EIT0 shows up on the TVCT side of debug menu 5.
And the guide info works.
Code:
i  FID     EID    PID   TID   TTYPE  TIDEXT   VERS  STATE  NAME
-----------------------------------------------------------------
0    0  0x00000002  0x1ffb  0xc7  0x0ffe 0x0000  ~0x08   used  MGT  PSIP_REQ
1    1  0x10000005  0x1006  0xcb  0x0100 0x0016  ~0x1d   used  EIT-0  PSIP_REQ
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
3    3  0x00000003  0x0000  0x00  0x0ffc 0x0000  ~0x02   used  PAT  PSIP_REQ
4    4  0x20000002  0x0030  0x02  0x0ffd 0x0003  ~0x05   used  PMT  PSIP_REQ
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
  0  ------  ------  ----  ------  ---  free  --------------
=================================================================
2013-12-31 06:36 PM
majortom No Guide info from CBLT - CBC today.
None from CICA -TVO either.
Must be slacker day...

Edit: Figures, as soon as I post that CBLT's EIT info returns..
Looks like it's back to normal already...
2013-12-29 10:45 PM
majortom Likely gonna setup to remotely ssh in to my machine some Thursday
so I can grab the same logs during the interval when it's working.
2013-12-29 04:50 PM
ralph_sinclair Thanks for all of your digging on this one majortom. I'm in Charlottetown on an LG TV and I'm seeing the same issue you report (psip on CBCT-DT is fine on anything non-LG I have looked at). So perhaps this issue is network wide for CBC. I haven't contacted them about it because I heard horror stories from Montreal a few years ago where the entire NHL playoffs were a slideshow for some folks due to psip issues. I figure if the picture and sound are OK then they can leave well enough alone.

But if you can pinpoint the exact issue, then maybe one of us canucks can get hold of CBC engineering and they can fix it network wide. There are very occasional times here where I see proper program info on CBCT-DT, and I've been assuming these are the times when the offsets are accidentally OK (like a stopped clock being right twice a day).
2013-12-27 12:17 PM
majortom here's a couple snippets from CBLT.
command 0x5 in this menu shows some info about the current physical channel. I select port0_tvct, result ->no event information.
Code:
[PSIP Debug Menu]
    0x01: Show PSIP Configuration
    0x02: Show PSI Information
    0x03: Show Time Information
    0x04: Show MGT Structure
    0x05: Show Pch
    0x06: Show Filter Information
    0x07: Show Eit Info partly
    0x08: Show Memory Info
    0x09: Show RRT
    0x20: Reset Channel
    0x21: Request Channel Info
    0x30: Toggle section dump
    0x40: current time by PSIP
    0x41: Get Program Guide
    0x42: Get DetailInformation
    0x50: Test SSU related API
    0x60: Dump PSIP DB
    0xff: Exit from PSIP debug Menu

Select Command: 0x05

*Select Port and Type(0=port0 TVCT, 1=port1 TVCT, 2=port0 CVCT, 3=port1 CVCT): 0

[PCH]---------------------------
    * status              : 0x01
    * pch no              : 20
    * tsid                : 0x43a1(17313)
    * version             : 7
    * num of vchs         : 1
    * num of waiting Etms : 0
    [VCH]-----------------------
        * status          : 0x00
        * major no        : 5
        * minor no        : 1
        * short name      :  CBLT-DT
        * source id       : 0x0016(22)
        * program no      : 0003(3)
        * access ctrl     : 0
        * hidden          : 0
        * hide guide      : 0
        * path select     : 0
        * out of band     : 0
        * etmLoc          : 0
        * carrier freq    : 0
        * tsid            : 0x43a1(17313)
        * service type    : 0x2
        * modulation mode : 4
        * ext text        : 
    -> No Text
        [DESC-0xa1]--------SERVICE_LOCATION_DESC(2ab52410)
            * length : 21
        * pcr pid : 0x0031
        [Stream 0]
            * stream type : 0x02
            * lang code   :    
            * pid         : 0x0031
        [Stream 1]
            * stream type : 0x81
            * lang code   : eng
            * pid         : 0x0034
        [Stream 2]
            * stream type : 0x81
            * lang code   : enm
            * pid         : 0x0035
        [DESC-0xa0]--------EXTENDED_CH_NAME_DESC(2ab52440)
            * length : 26
        [String 0]--
            * lang code : eng
        [Segment 0]--
            * compression type : 0
            * mode             : 0x00
            * num of bytes     :  18
            * bytes : 
            CBLT-DT Toronto HD
command 0x05, selecting port0_CVCT, result -> parsed event information

Code:
[PSIP Debug Menu]
    0x01: Show PSIP Configuration
    0x02: Show PSI Information
    0x03: Show Time Information
    0x04: Show MGT Structure
    0x05: Show Pch
    0x06: Show Filter Information
    0x07: Show Eit Info partly
    0x08: Show Memory Info
    0x09: Show RRT
    0x20: Reset Channel
    0x21: Request Channel Info
    0x30: Toggle section dump
    0x40: current time by PSIP
    0x41: Get Program Guide
    0x42: Get DetailInformation
    0x50: Test SSU related API
    0x60: Dump PSIP DB
    0xff: Exit from PSIP debug Menu

Select Command: 0x05

*Select Port and Type(0=port0 TVCT, 1=port1 TVCT, 2=port0 CVCT, 3=port1 CVCT): 02

[PCH]---------------------------
    * status              : 0x01
    * pch no              : 20
    * tsid                : 0x43a1(17313)
    * version             : 7
    * num of vchs         : 1
    * num of waiting Etms : 0
    [VCH]-----------------------
        * status          : 0x00
        * major no        : 5
        * minor no        : 1
        * short name      :  CBLT-DT
        * source id       : 0x0016(22)
        * program no      : 0003(3)
        * access ctrl     : 0
        * hidden          : 0
        * hide guide      : 0
        * path select     : 0
        * out of band     : 0
        * etmLoc          : 0
        * carrier freq    : 0
        * tsid            : 0x43a1(17313)
        * service type    : 0x2
        * modulation mode : 4
        * ext text        : 
    -> No Text
        [DESC-0xa1]--------SERVICE_LOCATION_DESC(2ab52450)
            * length : 21
        * pcr pid : 0x0031
        [Stream 0]
            * stream type : 0x02
            * lang code   :    
            * pid         : 0x0031
        [Stream 1]
            * stream type : 0x81
            * lang code   : eng
            * pid         : 0x0034
        [Stream 2]
            * stream type : 0x81
            * lang code   : enm
            * pid         : 0x0035
        [DESC-0xa0]--------EXTENDED_CH_NAME_DESC(2ab52400)
            * length : 26
        [String 0]--
            * lang code : eng
        [Segment 0]--
            * compression type : 0
            * mode             : 0x00
            * num of bytes     :  18
            * bytes : 
            CBLT-DT Toronto HD
        [EVENT INFO]---------
            * status              : 0x00
            * source id           : 0x0016(22)
            * eitTime             : 1072191600 (2013/12/27   9:59:45)
            * start time          : 1072191600 (2013/12/27   9:59:45)
            * end time            : 1072202400 (2013/12/27  12:59:45)
            * num of waiting etms : 8
            * num of events       : 8
            [/EVENT 0] --------
                * addr       : 0x2ac92a80
                * status     : 0x00
                * event id   : 0x47(71)
                * start time : 1072191600 (2013/12/27   9:59:45)
                * end time   : 1072192200 (2013/12/27  10:09:45)
                * duration   : 600
                * valid      : 0x0(VALID)
                * title      : 
        [String 0]--
            * lang code : eng
        [Segment 0]--
            * compression type : 0
            * mode             : 0x00
            * num of bytes     :   8
            * bytes : 
            Bookaboo
                * etmLoc    : 1
                [DESC-0x81]--------AC3_AUDIO_DESC(2ab53480)
                    * length : 10
        * sample rate code : 0x0
        * bsid             : 0x8
        * bitrate code     : 0xe
        * surround mode    : 0x0
        * bs mode          : 0x0
        * n channels       : 0x2
        * full svc         : 0x1
        * asvc flags       : 0x0
                [DESC-0x81]--------AC3_AUDIO_DESC(2ab52120)
                    * length : 10
        * sample rate code : 0x0
        * bsid             : 0x8
        * bitrate code     : 0xe
        * surround mode    : 0x0
        * bs mode          : 0x2
        * n channels       : 0x2
        * full svc         : 0x1
        * asvc flags       : 0x0
                [DESC-0x86]--------CAPTION_SERVICE_DESC(2ab53420)
                    * length : 7
            -- num of caption services: 1
            [0] * service no(6bits): 1
            * line21Field(1bit): 0
            * language         : eng
            * cc type          : 0x1
            * easy reader      : 0x0
            * aspect ratio     : 0x0
                * ext text  : 
                  -> No Text
            [/EVENT 1] --------
                * addr       : 0x2ac92a40
                * status     : 0x00
                * event id   : 0x48(72)
                * start time : 1072192200 (2013/12/27  10:09:45)
                * end time   : 1072192500 (2013/12/27  10:14:45)
                * duration   : 300
                * valid      : 0x0(VALID)
                * title      : 
        [String 0]--
            * lang code : eng
        [Segment 0]--
            * compression type : 0
            * mode             : 0x00
            * num of bytes     :  28
            * bytes : 
            You & Me Hurray! Let's Play!
                * etmLoc    : 1
                [DESC-0x81]--------AC3_AUDIO_DESC(2ab535a0)
                    * length : 10
        * sample rate code : 0x0
        * bsid             : 0x8
        * bitrate code     : 0xe
        * surround mode    : 0x0
        * bs mode          : 0x0
        * n channels       : 0x2
        * full svc         : 0x1
        * asvc flags       : 0x0
                [DESC-0x81]--------AC3_AUDIO_DESC(2ab53840)
                    * length : 10
        * sample rate code : 0x0
        * bsid             : 0x8
        * bitrate code     : 0xe
        * surround mode    : 0x0
        * bs mode          : 0x2
        * n channels       : 0x2
        * full svc         : 0x1
        * asvc flags       : 0x0
                [DESC-0x86]--------CAPTION_SERVICE_DESC(2ab53140)
                    * length : 7
            -- num of caption services: 1
            [0] * service no(6bits): 1
            * line21Field(1bit): 0
            * language         : eng
            * cc type          : 0x1
            * easy reader      : 0x0
            * aspect ratio     : 0x0
                * ext text  : 
                  -> No Text
For normal channels with no CVCT, port0_CVCT will return
a "no Pch" message, like this...
Code:
[PSIP Debug Menu]
	0x01: Show PSIP Configuration
	0x02: Show PSI Information
	0x03: Show Time Information
	0x04: Show MGT Structure
	0x05: Show Pch
	0x06: Show Filter Information
	0x07: Show Eit Info partly
	0x08: Show Memory Info
	0x09: Show RRT
	0x20: Reset Channel
	0x21: Request Channel Info
	0x30: Toggle section dump
	0x40: current time by PSIP
	0x41: Get Program Guide
	0x42: Get DetailInformation
	0x50: Test SSU related API
	0x60: Dump PSIP DB
	0xff: Exit from PSIP debug Menu

Select Command: 0x05

*Select Port and Type(0=port0 TVCT, 1=port1 TVCT, 2=port0 CVCT, 3=port1 CVCT): 2

    -> No Pch
And normal channels with no CVCT will display the parsed events when ya select Port0_TVCT
as expected. Like the example here from CICA - TVO.

Code:
Select Command: 0x05

*Select Port and Type(0=port0 TVCT, 1=port1 TVCT, 2=port0 CVCT, 3=port1 CVCT): 0

[PCH]---------------------------
    * status              : 0x01
    * pch no              : 19
    * tsid                : 0x43a5(17317)
    * version             : 7
    * num of vchs         : 1
    * num of waiting Etms : 0
    [VCH]-----------------------
        * status          : 0x00
        * major no        : 19
        * minor no        : 1
        * short name      :  TVO    
        * source id       : 0x0001(1)
        * program no      : 0001(1)
        * access ctrl     : 0
        * hidden          : 0
        * hide guide      : 1
        * path select     : 0
        * out of band     : 0
        * etmLoc          : 0
        * carrier freq    : 0
        * tsid            : 0x43a5(17317)
        * service type    : 0x2
        * modulation mode : 4
        * ext text        : 
	-> No Text
        [DESC-0xa1]--------SERVICE_LOCATION_DESC(2ab52d20)
            * length : 21
		* pcr pid : 0x0031
		[Stream 0]
		    * stream type : 0x02
		    * lang code   :    
		    * pid         : 0x0031
		[Stream 1]
		    * stream type : 0x81
		    * lang code   : eng
		    * pid         : 0x0034
		[Stream 2]
		    * stream type : 0x81
		    * lang code   : eng
		    * pid         : 0x0035
        [EVENT INFO]---------
            * status              : 0x00
            * source id           : 0x0001(1)
            * eitTime             : 1072191600 (2013/12/27   9:59:45)
            * start time          : 1072191600 (2013/12/27   9:59:45)
            * end time            : 1072202400 (2013/12/27  12:59:45)
            * num of waiting etms : 24
            * num of events       : 26
            [/EVENT 0] --------
                * addr       : 0x2ac914c0
                * status     : 0x00
                * event id   : 0x2(2)
                * start time : 1072191600 (2013/12/27   9:59:45)
                * end time   : 1072192260 (2013/12/27  10:10:45)
                * duration   : 660
                * valid      : 0x0(VALID)
                * title      : 
		[String 0]--
		    * lang code : eng
		[Segment 0]--
		    * compression type : 0
		    * mode             : 0x00
		    * num of bytes     :  36
		    * bytes : 
		    Everything's Rosie:Holly Wraps It Up
                * etmLoc    : 0
                [DESC-0x81]--------AC3_AUDIO_DESC(2ab51f30)
                    * length : 10
		* sample rate code : 0x0
		* bsid             : 0x8
		* bitrate code     : 0xe
		* surround mode    : 0x0
		* bs mode          : 0x0
		* n channels       : 0x2
		* full svc         : 0x1
		* asvc flags       : 0x0
                [DESC-0x81]--------AC3_AUDIO_DESC(2ab51590)
                    * length : 10
		* sample rate code : 0x0
		* bsid             : 0x8
		* bitrate code     : 0xa
		* surround mode    : 0x0
		* bs mode          : 0x2
		* n channels       : 0x2
		* full svc         : 0x1
		* asvc flags       : 0x0
                [DESC-0x86]--------CAPTION_SERVICE_DESC(2ab52ed0)
                    * length : 7
		    -- num of caption services: 1
		    [0] * service no(6bits): 1
			* line21Field(1bit): 0
			* language         : eng
			* cc type          : 0x1
			* easy reader      : 0x0
			* aspect ratio     : 0x0
                [DESC-0x87]--------CONTENT_ADVISORY_DESC(2ab51f50)
                    * length : 32
		    -- num of regions: 1
			* region      : 2
			* dimension   : 0
			* value       : 1
                * ext text  : 
                  -> No Text
And finally, for the record, the sw version information of this particular TV.
Code:
1:ORG MAIN $ 2

Event            : 04(DV)
Software Ver     : 52
Hardware Ver     : 00
MODEL NAME       : 42LH40-UA
COMPILE USER     : [email protected]
COMPILE DATE     : Oct 30 2009
COMPILE TIME     : 17:01:44
EDBMS VERSION    : 0x1
OS RELEASE       : 
OS VERSION       :
2013-12-27 10:33 AM
majortom El_GranChico,
was back to looking at the CBC guide problems again.
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...t=cvct&page=30

Connected a PC to my LG TV's RS-232 serial port and got in to debug mode,
to collect some logs from the TV's point of view.

It's pretty obvious to me that it does decode the Event Information, but it apparently can't display it due to the CVCT vs TVCT issue. I'll post some logfiles later from CBLT and TVO for comparison.

Unfortunately I'm never home on Thursdays to collect the same logs then...
ie to compare it to when it's working for that one interval where eit-0 is on pid 0x1000
2013-12-14 09:20 AM
Andysradio These pages are very inaccurate and out of date. They have been that way for some time. Much of the information for the radio networks is way out of whack.
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

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