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Thread: Steve Jobs says why no Flash on iPhone, iPad Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
2011-03-08 04:44 PM
U To add to 99semaj's post, here is more information on Adobe's new "Wallaby" initiative...

With Wallaby, Adobe is clearly readying itself for a "post-Flash" era that may be ushered in with the "post-PC" era. The number of devices which either have no Flash capability or only weak support will only grow, and Adobe doesn't want to be cut out of the market completely.
2011-03-08 04:30 PM
David Susilo Hugh, it is in the norm in the context that I've been posting about (car manufacturers, audio manufacturers, even the largest social network -- Facebook -- all its apps -- the things that bring them revenue -- are flash based)

Also if you go to various news sites outside North America - such in Japan, Singapore, malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, too many of them are unfortunately flash heavy. (nothing more stupid than a flash-based news sites... all they need are text and pics anyway)
2011-03-08 04:25 PM
hugh David, flash is not ubiquitous so I don't know how you can call it the norm and contrary to your earlier assertion, its not growing.

2011-03-08 04:21 PM
David Susilo It will still take at least another year or two before this flash thing become an exception instead of the norm. Mark my word.
2011-03-08 04:19 PM
PokerChip This debate is still an issue, but not for long. Hugh eluded to it in his post: The growth of iOS based devices is all the leverage Apple (Jobs) needs to force Web developers to adopt different standards (HTML 5).

I remember reading somewhere that over the last 12-15 months, the percentage of online video available through HTML 5 had jumped from 25% to about 65 to 70%.

This was during the iPad's infancy. This trend is only likely to accelerate and extend to other types of content such as animated websites.

I used to be choked at the lack of Flash support on iOS devices. It's rarely an issue anymore and when it is, I always have access to a computer to get around the problem. I have to agree with Jobs about the total resource hog that Flash is. My kids MacBooks double as space heaters because the Flash website they play games on. If they're not plugged in, battery is dead within 45 minutes. Flash does crash a lot on my Macs, even my recently purchased and loaded MacBook Pro running Snow Leopard and all the current software updates.
2011-03-08 04:11 PM
David Susilo at the same time 150 million unit is nothing compared to 1 billion plus users that can use flash. Regardless, I'm longing for the days of the old low-bandwidth websites. I'm tired of things flying around on my web screen as much as I'm tired of 3D movies throwing things at me.

I honestly feel that people don't have good enough content and use flash in the attempt to hide those deficiencies.
2011-03-08 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by hugh View Post
That's a number that Car Manufacturers and owners of other Flash sites can't ignore.
Exactly... Recently (less than a month ago), the French CBC web site did a full redesign and completely removed Flash. It now looks perfect on a tablet, I'm sure (although I can't prove it) it was one of their motivations. They also created an iPad/iPhone app to watch TV content ( so they really seem to be embracing the tablet.
2011-03-08 01:06 PM
hugh GrimJack, that makes a lot of sense. I forget how long "legacy" code and "legacy" coders can last!

Interesting, I was just looking at some sales numbers and predictions. If Apple sells 40 or 50 million iPads in 2011 and 30 million iPhones then the install base of iPad and iPhone will be close to 150 million by the end of this year.

That's a number that Car Manufacturers and owners of other Flash sites can't ignore.

2011-03-08 12:21 PM
Originally Posted by hugh View Post
why would Adobe do this?
My guess is because it's more than just iOS that's choking on Flash. I'm thinking that other mobile OS's having the same problems, albeit less publicly, and Adobe needs an exit strategy.
2011-03-08 11:53 AM
GrimJack There's a lot of people who are only comfortable producing content through tools. You could ask why people pay for Dreamweaver when they could just edit HTML by hand. It's very difficult to convince most people to learn new technologies, this way Adobe lock in their flash user base while keeping their skills relevant/marketable.

As well there is a large base of Flash code that people want to continue to use but don't want to pay someone to rewrite from scratch. They'll sell a lot of this to managers who only consider cost, even if it produces less efficient code.

I'm sure Adobe saw the writing on the wall a while ago, the iOS thing just accelerated how soon they were willing to pull the trigger on producing new tools vs preserving their flash cash cow.
2011-03-08 11:48 AM
hugh why would Adobe do this?

As a developer, if your going to convert your site to HTML 5 for some users, then why not build it in HTML 5 to begin with?

2011-03-08 11:31 AM
Adobe capitulates?

Maybe it's a moot discussion now...Adobe has released their technology preview of a new tool that distills Flash into HTML5, giving websites an easy track back to iOS (and WP7 and Xoom for that matter). Apparently there's a couple of unsupported features, but the main functionality is there....
2011-03-07 06:13 PM
David Susilo Too many sites won't allow you to even enter if you disable flash. The worst offenders are and also mcintosh audio.

2011-03-07 06:02 PM
In the old days, sites did. You could goto the HTML site or the Flash site. I always chose the HTML site because I didn't like the "schlockiness" of most Flash sites.
Sure, but that was back when websites used flash for the entire website (or at least major portions of the site, like navigation. These days sites have moved away from that design pattern (even on "high bandwidth" sites), and now flash is for special purpose items like graphs (like in Google Finance) or video, but since there is no practical alternative to Flash (ignoring stuff like Silverlight) to do many of those functions there is no Flash vs HTML "option". Oh, and sites have generally abandoned the "splash" page on which those choices were presented.

If you want to block flash, use a flash blocker, and then it's like you clicked the "HTML" version all the time.
2011-03-07 05:34 PM
David Susilo agree! Sites should have the option for flash vs non-flash. When the option is there, I always choose non-flash or sometimes even low-bandwidth option (when available).
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