Blackberry Priv: Too little, too late? - Page 7 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #91 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-08, 08:02 AM
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What are the steps required to attach a file (or multiple files of multiple types) to a reply/forward on iOS9?
You have to hold your finger in the text area until the menu pops up, then you have to touch the right end to bring up more choices, where you can finally select attach. On my Nexus 5, I just touch the paper clip to attach.
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post #92 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-08, 08:33 PM
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Great, so we're in agreement that iOS's handling of outgoing email attachments is frustrating, and in some cases not possible.
But you're not tied to using the native email app on iOS. This is like saying that Windows is bad for using the internet because Internet Explorer isn't a good web browser.

Here is a very partial list of why BlackBerry 10 hasn't succeeded:
  • Gmail/Inbox
  • Hangouts
  • Apple Music/Google Play Music/Pandora
  • Snapchat
  • Netflix
  • Hulu
  • At Bat/MLB.tv
  • Instagram
  • Starbucks
  • Many major bank or payment apps
  • Runkeeper
  • Uber
  • Yahoo Fantasy

There are many, many more, but last I checked, none of those have first-party, native BB10 apps. You have to use a mobile web page or a (often not free) third-party app or port an Android app to BlackBerry's increasingly dated Android run-time, which may or may not work.

It goes beyond just the apps, too. Want to buy a nest thermostat? Can't control it with your phone. A smartwatch? Not happening with BlackBerry 10. A Fitbit? You'll always have to sync to your PC. A Sonos sound system? You have to pay for a third party app which might stop working at any time. Control a Chromecast? Nope.

These things go beyond our phones themselves now, they're increasingly becoming the centre of a much wider range of personal technologies. Even if you don't own/subscribe and have no interest in any of those products and services, it's increasingly unlikely that this would still be the case two years from now. Meanwhile, all of the things I listed are available via native, first-party apps on Android or iOS.

The average smartphone owner doesn't send much email from their devices, because the average smartphone owner isn't using it for business purposes. And among those who are, most want a device that works for the things they want outside of work. It's more than worth adding a layer of difficulty to adding attachments to email if it means they can Snapchat their friends, adjust their fantasy hockey lines, and properly archive their email.

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post #93 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 12:05 AM
 
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Most people don't use their phones for email because most phones suck for email.

Frankly I don't want any of that crap. I'm 32, well beyond the teenage snapchat years. I don't own a house, so a Nest is out of the question. I'm not interested in wearables, and my toaster isn't on WiFi. But I do email lots with my phone, so I want a phone that's capable in that regard without all the complexity and garbage practically forced upon me by virtually every Android distribution there is.

As for Chromecast - I was streaming Netflix from my Z30 to a Microsoft wireless display adapter plugged into a plasma TV the other day. I guess that doesn't count though.

Frankly very few of my friends and family have much interest in those things either. Contrary to what advertising has done an excellent job of convincing us of, very few people are surrounded by all these smart/connected devices.

In fact I'm finding more people wanting to simplify their lives, which doesn't bode well for the success of interconnected devices which are often just an interoperability nightmare for the end user.

I've yet to see a Nest during all of the housecalls I make. I rarely see my clients using a smartwatch/fitness tracker, or listening to music through a Sonos.

I was setting up a sound bar for a client a few weeks ago - he asked how I was setting up the wireless subwoofer, and immediately after I explained that I was pairing it much like he pairs his phone to his car, he went into a rant about how his iPhone never stays connected properly to his new GM SUV. Go figure....



And what's that you're implying about not being able to properly archive email?
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post #94 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 02:27 AM
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Congratulations on missing TorontoColin's point! How many times do we have to say it, that just because you don't have a use for something doesn't mean a lot of people don't?

The connected home is something that's gaining a lot of interest. Chromecast is a big deal, and goes far beyond Netflix. It's hot like Miracast at all (which is primarily a way to mirror the contents on your screen). Heck, for the longest time BB10 didn't even have a Netflix app!

Get your head out of your butt and realize you aren't the voice of smartphone users in general. You have your own opinions on what YOU need in a phone, and that's it.

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post #95 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 02:42 AM
 
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And for every person who wants some gadget interconnected with their phone, there's another who wants to simplify and remove complexity from their life. I know, they're my clients.

People don't want to spend money on gadgets that complicate their lives.
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post #96 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 06:07 AM
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^^^ I completely understand, if your clients are on the same level as your colleague who has to go back to the office to email attachments.

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post #97 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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The app gap is exactly why BB and WP are dying. I'm older than dirt (52) and I don't give a tinker's cuss about snapchat or instagram, but I'm not the target demographic either. In WP's case, if the popular apps didn't make a WP variant then you might as well begin to pack your bags - the party is over. They had a great developer that made it his mission to create 3rd party apps to do the same thing that the official ones did, but was either forced to stop creating them (Instagram) or it didn't make a difference.

I can't stand the fact that we have only two players to realistically choose from, even though I think my LG G4 is a thing of beauty.
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post #98 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 01:01 PM
 
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^^^ I completely understand, if your clients are on the same level as your colleague who has to go back to the office to email attachments.
If you don't have anything of value to add...
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post #99 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 01:59 PM
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It's unfortunate that BB10 and Windows Phone/Mobile are getting squeezed out of the market because, frankly, those operating systems are both better than Android in some key areas.

I think the mobile world would be a better place if the dominant OS wasn't Android because Android has some fundamental flaws from both a technology viewpoint as well as a distribution viewpoint. I love my Nexus 6P, I think it's a fantastic piece of hardware. But most people who buy Android devices don't have a Nexus device and getting regularly patched.

Imagine what a disaster the PC market would be if Windows updates were up to the hardware OEMs. Even worse, imagine if you needed to have a very specific, custom image for your particular hardware combination. For example, when I go to download Android factory images for Nexus devices I note that there are separate images for Nexus tablets depending on whether or not it has a cellular modem or not. Not even Google seems to be able to provide a single image that can optionally install drivers when hardware is detected.

Can you imagine Microsoft saying "What? You added an additional network card to your PC? Oh, you'll need to use a different Windows installer."

And don't get me started on Java.

I think that Blackberry could certainly add value to Android by promising a much longer support window than what Google provides to Nexus devices. And release patches/updates promptly, without the involvement of cell phone carriers. I don't think they should try changing Android too much, with custom features, etc. That just makes it more difficult for them to stay up-to-date with the latest Android builds from Google, and merging Google's code changes in would become a very involved process.
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post #100 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 07:57 PM
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Frankly I don't want any of that crap. I'm 32, well beyond the teenage snapchat years. I don't own a house, so a Nest is out of the question. I'm not interested in wearables, and my toaster isn't on WiFi. But I do email lots with my phone, so I want a phone that's capable in that regard without all the complexity and garbage practically forced upon me by virtually every Android distribution there is.
There are more than 30 million Fitbits out there. More than 25 million Chromecasts. Millions of Nests, Jawbone Ups, Pebble watches, Dropcams, OnHubs, and Sonos systems. Most of these things themselves sell better than BlackBerry 10 devices, and most of these are niche products. It's also very early in the era of connected devices: there will be many more to come and they will get cheaper and cheaper.

Snapchat has more than 200 million monthly active users. Instagram has 400 million. Market data tells us that you are by far the minority. And even if you don't want any kind of connected device, or service not currently available on BlackBerry today, who knows what might come out during the lifetime of your phone.

As for archiving email, I mean that IMAP email apps don't popular support gmail features like bundles and separately archiving and deleting emails. And with Google becoming not only the largest public email provider, but also an increasingly important corporate email provider, that matters.
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post #101 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 08:50 PM
 
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A health care investment fund, Rock Health, says Fitbit's regulatory filings suggest that only half of Fitbit's nearly 20 million registered users were still active as of the first quarter of 2015.
Fitbit quitters? Fitness trackers often abandoned within months - Technology & Science - CBC News
Gmail's proprietary features are not part of the IMAP standard, so it's not reasonable to complain when a platform other than Android doesn't implement them.

Email service is quite a personal choice. Frankly I find the integration between Outlook.com and BlackBerry 10 to be quite a bit smoother than Gmail's reliance on multiple protocols for email, contacts and calendar. (Hell, why can't I two-way sync Gmail contacts/calendar with Outlook 2016?)

ActiveSync syncs everything up beautifully with Outlook 2016 and my phone, and I never have any problems archiving mail or finding mail in various folders. But I suppose you tell people that BB10 doesn't archive mail without clarifying that it's merely Gmail the feature doesn't work with.
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post #102 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-09, 11:51 PM
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It's absolutely reasonable. For the billion plus users of gmail, BlackBerry 10 offers a worse experience than Android or iOS. Why that is isn't relevant to choosing which OS to use.

Those features are absolutely proprietary. As is Google Hangouts, Snapchat, Netflix, Facebook, Instagram, fitbit, Pebble, and countless other major services (basically all of them). Nobody said this was open and fair.

For BlackBerry 10 to be a success, BlackBerry needed to get these companies to the table. Google did; there are almost no major apps and services which aren't available on Android anymore. Apple did; all of Google's major services, including gmail, have native iOS apps. BlackBerry did it for their older OSes; I believe there was a gmail app for BlackBerry 7. They failed for BlackBerry 10, and the OS has failed as a result.

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post #103 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-10, 12:09 AM
 
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Sorry, I can't get past Gmail.com's horrid interface (most Google product interfaces are poor) to spend any amount of time exploring the features, but you're absolutely wrong about BB10's ability to archive emails. BB10's PIM integration with Exchange/EAS/Outlook.com is perfectly functional.

Why would I use a service that only works on my mobile devices and not my desktop? Google's removal of ActiveSync support leaves users with nothing for desktop/laptop use.
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post #104 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-10, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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It's absolutely reasonable. For the billion plus users of gmail, BlackBerry 10 offers a worse experience than Android or iOS. Why that is isn't relevant to choosing which OS to use.

Those features are absolutely proprietary. As is Google Hangouts, Snapchat, Netflix, Facebook, Instagram, fitbit, Pebble, and countless other major services (basically all of them). Nobody said this was open and fair.

For BlackBerry 10 to be a success, BlackBerry needed to get these companies to the table. Google did; there are almost no major apps and services which aren't available on Android anymore. Apple did; all of Google's major services, including gmail, have native iOS apps. BlackBerry did it for their older OSes; I believe there was a gmail app for BlackBerry 7. They failed for BlackBerry 10, and the OS has failed as a result.
Ha! Google didn't have to do much to bring those services "to the table". Hell, half of those are Google services - of course they would reside on Android. It would be pretty stupid to have Hangouts only available for iOS. In some cases Google simply wouldn't allow their services to be placed on other platforms (other than iOS). It is a good strategy. Why allow fringe players access to the plum apps when inevitably they'll come over to your side out of sheer frustration?

Android was up and well established when snapchat/instagram was brought on line - it would be suicide for a dev to make an app for iOS and not Android. It wasn't some coup that Android brought these companies to the table - it was logical. That's like saying a software program will run on OSX and linux, but wasn't developed for Microsoft.
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post #105 of 155 (permalink) Old 2016-02-10, 08:46 AM
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I believe both those apps were iOS exclusive in their early days, as were many other major apps in Android's early life. But yes, the key point with BlackBerry 10 (and Windows Phone) has pretty much always been that it came far too late. If they'd launched before Android exploded maybe they would have stood a chance, but by the time they released it was already over.

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Originally Posted by ssbtech View Post
Sorry, I can't get past Gmail.com's horrid interface (most Google product interfaces are poor) to spend any amount of time exploring the features, but you're absolutely wrong about BB10's ability to archive emails. BB10's PIM integration with Exchange/EAS/Outlook.com is perfectly functional.

Why would I use a service that only works on my mobile devices and not my desktop? Google's removal of ActiveSync support leaves users with nothing for desktop/laptop use.
I don't know if you're intentionally ignoring the point, or if you're too egocentric to see this see this, but it's not about you. Your individual opinion on these services is irrelevant. We're not talking about what you like better, we're talking about what the rest of the world uses.

It doesn't matter that you think the interface is bad, and apparently still need to use a desktop mail client like it's 2005: more than a billion people use gmail. It doesn't matter that you apparently think you're above communication mediums like Snapchat: over 200 million people don't. Any phone built just for you is doomed to fail; if it doesn't have the flexibility to support the use cases of people whose tastes don't match your own, it won't sell.
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