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post #61 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 08:57 AM
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AHHH Clear as mud! LOL

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post #62 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 09:07 AM
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j0dest3r, I am not playing with your head. I appreciate your help but I also hope you can appreciate that I think MS has done a terrible job is communicating all of this because of their insistence on branding everything Windows XX.

In summary, I really had just two points.

First, I think the price is way too high for a "tablet". MS appears to justify the high cost by going on about the cover etc. But once you add a cover, you're essentially saying you want a slim laptop so why not just get an ultrabook ( with Flash memory and big boy Windows 8) for a lower price.

Second, I think there will be a lot of confusion in coming months. Confusion that could very well have been eliminated with clear communication and by not calling everything Windows XX. I may be mistaken on this point but every time I hear folks talk, its about the "windows tablet". It's never the Surface tablet running Windows RT.

Only time will tell.



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post #63 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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The keyboard cover is just a convenience feature and a pretty good idea. You can get a cover for most tablets as it stands right now, why not give it that little bit of extra function with something useful? I'd imagine there will be some folks that will go into a store and say, " So is this a laptop or a tablet?". But I'd hope a rep would explain the differences between the two and determine what would suit the needs of the customer. I can't imagine someone walking into a store blind and picking up any strange tech without asking at least a couple of questions.

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post #64 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 10:12 AM
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I think the covers are one of the most unique and interesting elements of the Surface. If Microsoft had bundled it in at $499, they would have a neat differentiating factor.

I think Microsoft recognizes this to some degree as they are really pushing the cover in advertising.

The problem with relying on sales folk to explain the differences is that it relies on the sales people to understand it themselves. Depending on where you buy it, that may or may not be the case.

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post #65 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 10:21 AM
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"So is this a laptop or a tablet?"
So, which is it?



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post #66 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 10:27 AM
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Ummm...it's definitely not a phone?

Seriously though, in this way I give Microsoft huge credit. They're embracing the post PC era and rather than trying to make everyone stick to traditional PCs, they're trying to release an OS flexible enough to accommodate a huge variety of form factors. The Surface might be a category of its own, but not all computers are going to be easily categorized going forward.

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post #67 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Hugh, if you're speaking from a customer point of view, I'd remove the keyboard show it to you and say, "What do you think it is?" Without the keyboard cover, almost anyone would recognize it as a tablet. If I then add the keyboard I'd say, "What is it now?" It's a tablet with a keyboard.

You think the consumer is confused now, wait until touch laptops and hybrids are in full swing.

It's a learning curve - like any new thing. It's up to a rep to properly educate a customer (long shot I know) or most likely, the consumer to do the research.

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post #68 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 11:47 AM
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I'm with Hugh on this one.

His points above are bang on..

I do like the idea of a true windows tablet. With all the functions of a laptop but with the high quality glass screen and removable keyboard.

The confusion 100% lies with using windows name for the rt version. Should have used a new os name if it cannot run legacy apps or applications or programs or software or...... Surface OS. Would have worked for me

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post #69 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 12:03 PM
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I agree. MS is using the Windows name to sell something that isn't really Windows. The underlying O/S may be there but the Windows name originally referred to the interface, not just the underlying O/S. Maybe MS cannot use the Metro name but they should have either licensed it or come up with something else. Windows 2000 was billed as "Windows 2000, based on NT technology." Something like "Surface O/S, based on Windows 8 technology" would be closer to the truth. The fact that the "metro" interface is in Windows 8 probably clears MS of any legal wrongdoing but the use of the Windoes RT name dilutes both products.

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post #70 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 04:36 PM
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I don't think it's realistic for MS to use a name for the Windows RT OS that that does not have "Windows" in it. It just won't sell.
As for how the public may be confused - I think that consumers by now are aware that pretty much all existing tablets don't do everything a PC does, so the lowered expectations will help RT get some foothold in the tablet market without major disgruntlement.
But the price is too steep. I think it's an attempt to appease the OEMs who will most likely have lower price points. MS won't move many of those after the launch.
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post #71 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 05:27 PM
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I agree. Windows RT is as much "Windows" as Windows Phone or Windows Mobile. Windows is a big part of the Microsoft brand. There's also too much similarity to Windows 8 to not call it Windows.

That said, I think they could have done better than Windows RT. Windows Tablet might have worked, except there's no guarantee we won't see Windows RT on laptops at some point, and we're sure to see it on convertibles at least.

I agree it's a confusing mess and Microsoft isn't doing themselves any favours with convoluted terminology and changing names mid stream, but I'm not sure they could have come up with a much clearer name for Windows RT, at least long term.

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post #72 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh View Post
j0dest3r, I am not playing with your head. I appreciate your help but I also hope you can appreciate that I think MS has done a terrible job is communicating all of this because of their insistence on branding everything Windows XX.

In summary, I really had just two points.

First, I think the price is way too high for a "tablet". MS appears to justify the high cost by going on about the cover etc. But once you add a cover, you're essentially saying you want a slim laptop so why not just get an ultrabook ( with Flash memory and big boy Windows 8) for a lower price.

Second, I think there will be a lot of confusion in coming months. Confusion that could very well have been eliminated with clear communication and by not calling everything Windows XX. I may be mistaken on this point but every time I hear folks talk, its about the "windows tablet". It's never the Surface tablet running Windows RT.

Only time will tell.
Thanks and for what its worth, I agree with all your points.
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post #73 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 06:27 PM
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Marketers love brand extensions.

So Coke gets Diet Coke, Coke Zero, New Coke and so on. The belief is that their will be a "halo" effect on new products and that by including the "brand" name, the product will get more shelf space and faster consumer acceptance.

The problem is that Windows (an Operating System) is not a box of detergent or a type of pop or a brand of diapers.

Apple has been brilliant. Apple is the brand. Mac means computers, "i" means personal products so i know immediately what a Mac app and what an iOS app works on. (yes ios apps may not work on all i products but I know its not a Mac app)

Frankly they should have stuck with Metro then you would Metro Apps, Windows Apps, and Xbox apps.

BTW (and I'm being serious) will Windows RT apps run on Windows Phone?



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post #74 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 06:34 PM
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The tablet only O/S should be called Microsoft RT OS or RTOS for short or just RT for shorter. Then Windows 8 can be known as Windows8 w/ RT.

Problem solved.

Q: Can you get Windows 8 without RT?

A: No
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post #75 of 102 (permalink) Old 2012-10-19, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by hugh View Post
Apple has been brilliant. Apple is the brand. Mac means computers, "i" means personal products so i know immediately what a Mac app and what an iOS app works on. (yes ios apps may not work on all i products but I know its not a Mac app)
So then what's an iMac? It runs OS X, no? And doesn't iTunes run on Mac? Or iMovie and iPhoto? And how many third part "i" apps are on the Mac App Store?

An iPod touch runs iOS, but an iPod classic, nano, or shuffle doesn't. Which, by the way, you wouldn't know if you went to the iPod comparison page, because it has no mention of iOS anywhere. The closest it comes is listing "apps" in the middle of a long list of features.

I'm not saying Apple's done a bad job of branding by any means, just trying to make the point that even for such a highly successful company it is incredibly difficult to keep these naming conventions straight.

Also, Apple has the advantage of being the only company making hardware running OS X or iOS. Nobody can make a touch screen laptop running iOS. Nobody can make a tablet running OS X. Apple is in complete control, and only releases 5 OS X products (MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, Mac mini, iMac, Mac Pro) and 3 iOS products (iPhone, iPad, iPod touch). They then also carefully control the retail experience.

Microsoft can't control that hardware in the same way. Nor do I think they want to; they built the most flexible OS they could and now they want to see what OEMs can do with it. It just means chaos for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh View Post
BTW (and I'm being serious) will Windows RT apps run on Windows Phone?
Nope. But I believe they use different app stores so you won't see one on the other.

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