The Future Of Nokia? - Page 6 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #76 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-27, 03:35 PM
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Elop didn't wreck Nokia, but he certainly made sure it wouldnt return to it glory days anytime in the forseeable future.
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post #77 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-27, 04:21 PM
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Nobody can return Nokia to its glory days. The glory ship sailed in 2007 and Nokia wasn't on board.
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post #78 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-27, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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So are we all agreeing with Moody's that Windows Phone 8 is "...by no means assured..." to be a success? If so, there is nothing so ridiculous as having Elop strip Nokia of all other options but WP8, including valuable, profitable OSes and platforms to whom Nokia would owe nobody else in royalties nor license fees if they had to crawl back from oblivion. What a disaster he's created.



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post #79 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 11:40 AM
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So, that cancellation of Meltemi, the Linux-based featurephone/dumphone OS that was supposed to replace S40 in a market that Nokia controls more than 20% of worldwide and that was turning a profit (yes, the aged S40, fer crepes suzette!) looks even dumber than ever.
Can they not just continue making S40 phones? If we're talking about people who aren't interested in a smartphone, no matter how cheap they might be, are these really likely to be the kind of discerning customers who would buy a Meltemi device, but not an S40 device? It seems to me like these are the kind of people who just want their phone to make phone calls, and S40 can do that fine. Spending resources on a new platform, when only a small percentage of your market is likely to care, just seems like a waste.

I do, however, think they should keep churning out S40 devices until they stop turning a profit.

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So are we all agreeing with Moody's that Windows Phone 8 is "...by no means assured..." to be a success?
I don't think anyone has argued otherwise. The question is, in February of 2011, did Windows Phone look more likely to be a success than Symbian/Meego? I don't think there is a definitive answer, but I think you can make a strong case that Windows Phone looked like a safer bet.

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post #80 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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Smartphones In Perspective

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Can they not just continue making S40 phones?
Nope, Elop has killed anything that is not WP7 (Microsoft has killed WP7) or WP8. Completely senseless...
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It seems to me like these are the kind of people who just want their phone to make phone calls
To geeks in North America, smartphones seem like the be all, end all of mobile devices, but just like Apple sells a range of iPods and how there is a wide range of Windows PC hardware out there for different uses and prices, the global mobile phone market also has it's market-based stratifications.

No matter what we in North America believe for ourselves (and North America is really not that big a market in the global scheme of things), Nokia had locked up a great market for cheap, solid, functional phones that were also music players, cameras, or other types. These were featurephones, with the dumbest of them being a simple dialing pad and small screen. That market was huge around the world and profitable for Nokia, and now it has been given away. Windows Phone 8 does not fit in such markets at all.



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post #81 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 03:36 PM
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That's not what I meant though. If they wanted to, can they make S40 phones still?

I just don't see the need to spend resources on a dumbphone OS, even if they want to stay in that market.

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post #82 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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The small city of Salo, Finland is/was home to a huge manufacturing operation, cranking out S40 and S60 phones like clockwork. The future was to be Meego and Meltemi. The factories have been shut down and the employees released.



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post #83 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 03:57 PM
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That's a whole different issue though. Again, my point is that the cancellation of Meltemi itself isn't what killed their dumbphone sales, and bringing Meltemi to market wouldn't have saved their dumbphone sales.

Shutting down S40 device manufacturing was a mistake. Shutting down development on a dumbphone OS when they already had a serviceable one available was not a mistake, since I can't see how bringing Meltemi to market would have had a significant impact on their dumbphone sales.

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post #84 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not getting your point, then. The means of producing those phones is now gone. The projects related to keeping those market segments are now gone. The manufacturing sites and the personnel are now gone too.



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post #85 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 04:24 PM
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My response was directed at this.
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that cancellation of Meltemi ... looks even dumber than ever
The mistake was shutting down dumbphone production, not shutting down Meltemi. The former was not a result of the latter. They could (and probably should) have shut down production on Meltemi and still continued S40 dumbphone manufacturing.

Canceling Meltemi makes sense to me because I don't see the need for it if they could have continued using S40 indefinitely.

Canceling S40 manufacturing doesn't make sense to me, assuming it was profitable for them.

Edit: I say this assuming that the only advantages of Meltemi were in the end user experience. If it ran on cheaper hardware, or could lower costs for Nokia in some other way, then that would totally change my opinion on it.

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post #86 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 06:09 PM
 
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Just as Apple and Harley Davidson have been marketing successes (instead of product successes) I feel that Nokia has been a marketing failure for the last 5+ years.

I was on an E71 prior to my current N8 and have been happy with both of their performance compared to comparable models of the day. My N8 is arguably still more capable than an iPhone or the Galaxy SII (have many friends who have both and we compare them all the time).

Unfortunately in Canada if you wanted an N8 you HAD to go with Rogers. That's pathetic. Now the 808 is out and no carrier in North America has got it. I'd rather a symbian beast than a WP/iOS/Droid clunker any day, but it has got to the point that people think Symbian is some horrible OS from the days when trains were invented.

I just hope newegg stocks the 808 like they did with the N8, I'd love to pick one up one day. In the meantime I continue to use my N8 for everything including photos instead of my DSLR 95% of the time...
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post #87 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 06:32 PM
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Two shocking pieces of news I learned from the last posts:

1. Nokia cancelled S40.
2. Nokia still had production facilities in Finland.

I searched the Internet right away and it turns out that 1 is just not correct.
2 apparently is true, because the news is that the last 780 workers in Salo are losing their jobs. 10,000 more to lose their jobs worldwide too, so the Finnish layoffs are not exactly the apocalypse that somebody here presented it as. I have also never seen a "Made in Finland" Nokia phone in my life.
I will stand fully corrected if those 780 workers in Salo were the last and only ones that produced S40 phones, but stampeder will have to present some proof of that. Hopefully not from his favorite blog bookmark.
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post #88 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 08:07 PM
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Just as Apple and Harley Davidson have been marketing successes (instead of product successes) I feel that Nokia has been a marketing failure for the last 5+ years.
Heh, heh, hold on a second. yes, Harley Davidson is a classic example of bad product, strong marketing (the HD museum in Milwaukee actually states this matter-of-factly), but Apple doesnt make bad products. Granted, they are not "jesus phone" miracle products like some what would have you beleive, but they are elegant and well-built.
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post #89 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-28, 08:55 PM
 
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You mean the smartphone that you can't hold a certain way or it'll lose signal? And the tablet that doesn't support flash? And the OS that is tied to a single program for all media transfer? It is certainly an inferior product to many of it's competition... Yet Apples stock remains at $600 or so and Nokia's is at $2.00

I used to own Apple products and I'll pass thanks!
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post #90 of 94 (permalink) Old 2012-07-29, 12:12 AM
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Let's please avoid discussing the merits of Apple devices here.

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