Steve Jobs says why no Flash on iPhone, iPad - Page 4 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #46 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 09:20 AM
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This article explains, from a developer perpective, why Flash should be avoided or used sparingly.

Anyone that builds a site that relies too much on Flash is shooting themselves in the foot. I have a photographer friend that wanted to show me his website not too long ago (we didn't have a computer handy at the time), I couldn't load it on my RIM and he couldn't load it on his iPhone. He suddenly realized that his design wasn't really smart... Photographers are notorious for building huge Flash interfaces on their websites, not sure why. (Personally I can't stand it, if I have to learn an new interface for every new website you lose me)

I don't hate Flash, but I think that with all the standards based tools available now it should only be used when there is no other option.
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post #47 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 09:41 AM
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I personally hate Flash, and hate it even more when I can not disable flash on any website. However, just like I'm hating people who thinks louder is better, Bose is the best sound system ever, etc, that is the fact of life that we have to face.

When iPad can do flash, that's when I'll buy one (which is going to be absolutely great as a laptop-browsing replacement).

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post #48 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 09:49 AM
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Judging from the iPad sales and the way other tablets that do have Flash (like the Galaxy) have been performing I'd say you are a minority. I.e., people don't seem to care that much about it. Of course it's completely your choice.

You might as well get a Xoom or a Galaxy (or wait for the PlayBook or HP's tablet), iPad won't have Flash any time soon... When I got mine at US launch the lack of Flash was a minor hindrance now I barely ever notice it, web sites are adapting to the new reality.
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post #49 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 10:13 AM
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Posts removed. If you wish how you market your services or discuss your personal thoughts about Apple then please use other threads.

The subject of this thread is Flash (or lack thereof) on the iPad.



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post #50 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U View Post
web sites are adapting to the new reality.
Not in the least bit.

ALL car manufacturers have now moved to flash
ALL theme park and vacation destinations have now moved to flash
now even more and more CE manufacturers have added more and more flash contents.

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post #51 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 10:29 AM
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Adapting can mean many things... Have you tried accessing them on an iPad? Some of these sites will use browser detection and serve you a Flash site on a PC or Mac but a non-Flash site on an iPad, iPhone or other similar device.
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post #52 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 10:32 AM
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Yes, I have (my brother in law owns an iPad). Some sites have mobile-version of the site. But there is no mobile version for the 3 major categories above and also a lot of the mobile-version of the sites tend to have very limited capabilities (although I do know they can do the exact same thing (without flash) and get the same results. Maybe lazy programming?

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post #53 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 10:40 AM
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You might want to be careful making blanket claims about "ALL" websites in a given category...

I admit I haven't tried all major Car maker's web site on my iPad but I do remember that Toyota's site worked fine, except for the ads on the main page... Even the pricing tool worked on the iPad. That was back in May 2010 though, things might have changed.

Also, I went to Calypso (a new water theme park in Ottawa) back in August and I remember their website was one of those annoying Flash "immersive experience" and they have now seemed to have moved completely away from Flash. Works great on the iPad.
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post #54 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 10:44 AM
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Well, to end the argument let's put it in the 100% exact wording:

"ALL car manufacturers that I frequent have now moved to flash
ALL theme park and vacation destinations that I frequent have now moved to flash
now even more and more CE manufacturers that I frequent have added more and more flash contents. "

The bottom line still there a more sites moving to flash than site that moving away from flash and Apple should accomodate that market especially when they are the tiny minority in the global web-access devices.

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post #55 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 11:02 AM
 
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I agree David, I run into Flash sites every day on my iPad and find it very frustrating. I bought a tablet when there was pretty much one choice (iPad) but given the choice now I would gladly buy a Xoom or Galaxy Tab 10.
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post #56 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 11:09 AM
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We could do this all day I suppose David but I have spent enough time on this so will leave you with one final thought.

The bottom line is that your evidence for saying "more sites are moving to Flash" is highly anecdotal. My own anecdotal evidence shows the opposite so who is right?

As far as what Apple is doing you are entitled to think what you want but direct evidence from the sales figures show that the lack of Flash doesn't seem to be stopping anyone from buying these devices in droves.

Apple doesn't have to accommodate Flash any more than people are obligated to buy their products. There are alternative that support Flash and if it's that important to someone I'm sure that someone will have done their research and get something other than an iPad.

Yes iDevices and mobile evices are a minority, but they are growing very fast and I maintain that ignoring them when building a site is an error. Of course feel free to disagree, we'll leave it at that...

Last edited by U; 2011-03-07 at 11:24 AM. Reason: used the wrong word, circumstantial vs. anecdotal... Brain fart.
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post #57 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
The bottom line still there a more sites moving to flash than site that moving away from flash
Personally, I think Jobs critique is valid. Will it cost Apple iPad sales in the future? Maybe but I don't think we'll know that until some of the competitors go on sale and marketers have a chance to survey buyers and find out why they chose one device or another rather than rely on anecdotal commentary.

Having said that I find your assertion very hard to believe and wonder if you have evidence to support the claim?

I know of one company that avoided Flash for their new site because they wanted the vast majority of all smartphones and all tablets to render their site properly. Whether this company was the exception or the rule, I don't know so I'd be interested in some facts on the matter.



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post #58 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 11:16 AM
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The bottom line is that your evidence for saying "more sites are moving to Flash" is highly circumstantial. My own circumstantial evidence shows the opposite so who is right?

Yes iDevices and mobile evices are a minority, but they are growing very fast and I maintain that ignoring them when building a site is an error. Of course feel free to disagree, we'll leave it at that...
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that for MY purpose, I need flash; and the opposite with you. MY set of sites that I frequent to require flash, your set of sites that you frequent don't require flash.

There is nothing right or wrong about either one of our statements.

Also I agree, if programmers can go away from flash, I for one will be very happy.

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post #59 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 11:57 AM
 
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Well said David, my needs also require Flash and I have been running into more and more sites that require it.
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post #60 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 12:13 PM
 
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I took a quick look on my iPad.

Volkswagon - Main page is HTML5, sub pages displayed a 'you need flash page' - Actually looking at the site from the desktop I'd guess you could fix volkswagon's site to not use Flash in a couple of days as far as browsing cars - the only flash they actually use is to display a picture at the top (pointless). Perhaps their configurator uses more flash I didn't bother looking.
Toyota - Warned me that some parts might use flash, couldn't see any lacking functionality. Site appeared as I remember it in a flash enabled browser.
General Motors - No warning, site appeared fully functional.

Disney
- Sub sites not park related rendered fine and then the flash detection ran and showed me a 'you need flash to see everything on this page' page. I'd expect that this is because Disney makes heavy use of a flash billboard for most of their sites. I'd expect to see this transition after they rewrite the billboard for modern browsers.
Park related site is identical to the desktop browser version and quite functional.

Edit -
Just as a note. Lets not confuse 'flash site' with 'Site that uses flash'
A flash site is somthing like enjoytheriderewards.com that takes over the whole page and everything is in flash.
A site that uses flash is all of the above sites that fall back to html with varying levels of success. Dropping to a 'this site requires flash' when it really doesn't is just lousy web design.

Last edited by GrimJack; 2011-03-07 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Added note about Flash site vs site using flash.
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