Steve Jobs says why no Flash on iPhone, iPad - Page 3 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #31 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-03, 08:13 PM
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Never an issue for me although I don't use the iPad for cruising the web that much, still prefer my laptop or desktop.

Best thing to do is to cruise the web and see how many sites you frequent use Flash and then decide for yourself.

Also ask yourself, how much time on the iPad will be spent web surfing.



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post #32 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-03, 08:19 PM
 
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An alternative I believe is Skyfire browser which when you get a flash site, it sends it to their server and you get an HTML5 version.

http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/skyfi...384941497?mt=8

I don't know if it works but I thought I would mention it.

The only time I missed Flash on my iPhone was when I wanted to watch a stream of a TV show at Global..Flash only. But I am not a heavy user.

Bob
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post #33 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-03, 08:23 PM
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merged this with older post since the arguments made in Post #1 are still valid. Whether you chose to agree is another matter



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post #34 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-03, 09:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent View Post
I'm seriously thinking about getting an iPad2 but I wonder if the inability to view Flash is an issue. I understand that HTML 5 is being used more and more can those of you who have an iPad find that this is an issue? From all I've read, the other tablets that can use Flash suffer from decreased battery life.

I'm so confused....
The best way to judge is to install an extension for your browser that blocks flash from loading and see how much you miss it.
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post #35 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-03, 09:31 PM
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I don't miss it. In fact, I rather like browsing without Flash ads blinking at me. How much Flash content do you consume?
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post #36 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-03, 11:22 PM
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depends on what sites do frequent. I frequent many flash-only sites including honda.ca, mcIntosh audio, Sonystyle. Without flash, you can't see the site at all.

THX, ISF, Control4 Certified Professional; CEDIA Certified Instructor; CEDIA Certified Designer
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post #37 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-03, 11:39 PM
 
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I also visit a lot of sites that require Flash and it is very frustrating. As for people who don't like the ads flashing or it's a battery drain, simple fix as my Android phone has a setting for this. I set it to "Flash on demand" which saves battery life and doesn't "annoy me" as I click on the box to start viewing the Flash content.
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post #38 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-04, 12:26 AM
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I do all my browsing on the iPad since last year, and in fairness, the only time Flash was really an issue was when I was on the acura.ca website (similar to the Honda site mentioned above)

But....I heard that the very latest version of Flash dramatically improves CPU utilization and performance. Apple originally declined Flash for the right reasons...it was a buggy piece of crap...but if in fact they have cleaned up their act, I wonder if Apple will reconsider implementing it in iOS?
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post #39 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-04, 01:44 AM
 
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never ever have i seen jobs eat his own words on something so frankly flash will never come (other then skyfire browser)

just not going to happen.
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post #40 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-04, 06:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post
depends on what sites do frequent. I frequent many flash-only sites including honda.ca, mcIntosh audio, Sonystyle. Without flash, you can't see the site at all.
As an experiment, I've turned off Flash on my desktop and started browsing through some of my bookmarks. Some of my favourite sites won't load or won't get past a text like menu screen (e.g. videos on Formula1.com;Mercedes-AMG.com; videos on Mercedes-GP.com). While Flash-less sites may be the future, I wonder if I would get very frustrated with an iPad as I am essentially looking at it as a replacement for my aging laptop. I think the answer may be to wait for a few more of the alternatives to be introduced and refined.

Now I also have new angst over the replacement of my (piece of crap) Blackberry flip phone when my contract is finally over next Dec.!
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post #41 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-05, 01:24 PM
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I see MORE (not less) flash-based sites lately.

Apple's stance of not including Flash is arrogant, to put it mildly. At the very least they should include flash and default the browser settings to "off".

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post #42 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 12:20 AM
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Really? Anyone designing or updating a webiste today can not simply choose to ignore the 100M or so iDevices out there (might as well include pretty much every other mobile browser, my RIM still doesn't have Flash). Well I guess you could but IMO that wouldn't be very smart...
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post #43 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 12:59 AM
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There can be 100 mil iDevices but there are hundreds of millions more devices that can show Flash. Therefore a HUGE majority of web audience will use flash. It is foolish, however, when iPhone/Touch/Pad don't even have flash option.

As far as RIM devices and other smart phones, there are more and more mobile version of the site.

In conclusion, it's not very smart for Apple to want to dominate yet being unwilling to use flash... Especially when they are still the very small minority

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post #44 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 02:27 AM
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To be fair, most mobile OS don't support Flash for the same reason that Apple doesn't. The difference is Apple has taken a stance that they won't even try, where the other OS makers are least attempting to make it work.

Make no mistake, the performance / overhead requirements of Flash are abysmal. It's kind of like the Hummer of the web design world. Fancy and pretty, but an irresponsible resource hog.

Is Apple's stance arrogant? Absolutely. They should be working with Adobe to exceed their customer's expectations, not having a very bitter and public battle. They ought to put the onus back on Adobe by providing an unambiguous spec for what it would take to get Flash into iOS.
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post #45 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-07, 09:31 AM
 
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Making out the no flash thing as just being stubborn is probably overlooking some major issues with Flash/Adobe.

1) Flash is a major source of security holes/malware.
Chances are anyone you know who picked up a virus/trojan from the web got it via Flash. For YEARS flash has been at the top of the list of vulnerabilities. One of the reasons is that the flash virtual machine is somewhat crufty. When I was working in that community the story was there are only 2 or 3 programmers inside Adobe who actually know enough about the 'quirks' of the flash engine to modify it and Adobe was having them spend more time on new features than fixing the core problems.
When there is a security issue with Flash you're at the mercy of Adobe to release a patch, which doesn't usually come quickly.

2) Most things people were using Flash for are now much more cleanly handled by HTML5/Javascript.
a) Fonts Embedding - much more elegant to use the new font embedding than loading flash and layering it over HTML elements to get the fonts you want.
b) Animation/Transitions - generally lighter/faster
c) Solving problems that occur because IE 6 sucked - Half solved by the google HTML5 shunt, half solved by the fact that IE is finally going away.
d) Streaming video - sending H.264 (Or even the google codec, although that's a comment for another thread) and decoding in hardware is more efficient than running the flash virtual machine....to mostly decode H.264 video. Why do people use Flash then? Because you can do obnoxious things like embed adds and clicks and other crap in the stream and put it in the viewer's face. Chances are if a Youtube video won't load on iOS its because the owner has required it to play flash ads.

3) One size fits all solutions aren't usually very enjoyable. You could get away with using flash when everyone who was viewing it was using a Keyboard and Mouse to interact(And it was a tolerable solution). When you start adding different styles of touch devices, physical keyboards w/touch screens etc. it breaks down. Most people want to re-use their flash site not because it's particularly enjoyable for the user, but because that's the easiest solution for them. I think a good example is the BBC, who made a special iOS app to play their content but just makes android users use the flash site.

There are lots of reasons for supporting things, but I can certainly say that 'well thats how we've always done it' probably doesn't rate very high (if at all) inside Apple. If Apple supported flash on iOS most sites would take their sweet time converting, as it is they're just lighting a fire under people to accelerate their plans.
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