Steve Jobs says why no Flash on iPhone, iPad - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #16 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-29, 10:10 PM
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Agree with Costa. None of my Adobe programs ever crashed on my PC. If anything, the PC (Windows) crashes by itself... and that doesn't happen to often either, maybe around once every three weeks.

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post #17 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-29, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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Steve Jobs said Flash crashes the most not Adobe products in general.

Flash is unstable on the Mac. After installing click-to-flash which blocks Flash from loading Safari has been totally stable. Every time an app crashes on a Mac there is an option to send the crash log to Apple. I'm sure their claim that Flash causes the most crashes is backed up by the crash logs they collect.

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post #18 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-29, 11:10 PM
 
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Flash is a mess, gives the computer fans a workout. Hope it goes the way of Real audio.

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post #19 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TorontoColin View Post
I like HTML5. I like it a heck of a lot more than Flash. I wish all the websites I visit used HTML5 instead.

However that hasn't happened. Many websites are in Flash and will stay that way for the foreseeable future. So if web designers are designing in Flash, and Flash is willing to create a plug-in for Apple devices, why does Steve get to say no for me? Why can't I chose to install it or not? There is a big difference between telling people they shouldn't and don't have to use Flash and telling them that they can't use Flash.

If, when Froyo arrives, Flash bogs down my Android phone I will disable it. If I can't disable it I (along with I'm sure many, many others) will raise hell. But at least I'll have that choice.
First of, you must have missed the part where Jobs claims that Adobe doesn't even have a viable product yet. They are about to ship one, if it really happens this time.

Secondly, allowing buggy and poorly implemented software reduces the perceived value of you product. You, as a technically savvy person may realize that flash is the culprit and not the phone hardware or OS but most people will just blame Apple if their iPhone starts misbehaving. As an owner of a Blackberry for many years (who allows pretty much any crap to be installed on their phone) I can testify that Apple has the right approach and they should scrutinize apps and have strict guidelines on how they should be written and implemented and what not...

Lastly, Apple has sold over 50 millions iPhones so far, over 20 million iPod touch and it seems that the iPad will also be a raging success. Give it a year or two and you'll have close to 100 million total users on Apple's platform. How long do you think that web developers who rely on Flash will realize that they are missing out on a big piece of the pie? Like I said in my previous comments, some web sites have already realized this and can produce gorgeous sites without the use of flash and IMO it's for the better.
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post #20 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 01:18 PM
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Which is why I totally get not integrating Flash. But if you allow it to be offered as a plug-in, people will be far more likely to blame Flash for any problems. As it is people just blame Apple for their inability to view certain sites, is that so much better?

If you have to make me jump through a bunch of hoops, that's one thing. But telling me that Apple knows best for me insults me as a technically savvy person. If Adobe is willing to make it, and it won't destroy my hardware, Apple should allow me to install it.
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post #21 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 01:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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A couple of ex Adobe Flash developers weigh in-

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/...be-flash-jobs/

They said they left Adobe because executives did not take the iPhone seriously when Apple announced the touchscreen device in 2007. Instead, Adobe focused on feature phones (cellphones with lightweight web features, not smartphones) and invested in development of Flash Lite to play Flash videos on such devices. Subsequently, Adobe shut down the mobile business unit in 2007, and has suffered from a brain drain in the mobility space ever since, Icaza and Luh said.

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post #22 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 02:20 PM
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Which is why I totally get not integrating Flash. But if you allow it to be offered as a plug-in, people will be far more likely to blame Flash for any problems. As it is people just blame Apple for their inability to view certain sites, is that so much better?
Judging from the success of Apple's offering, how fast they grew their market share of the smartphone market and the fact that pretty much every phone maker in the industry is now making Apple lookalikes, I really think that the answer is yes, it is much better. Success like that doesn't happen out of the blue, even Apple is not immune to a bad product (they have a long history of those).

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Originally Posted by TorontoColin View Post
If you have to make me jump through a bunch of hoops, that's one thing. But telling me that Apple knows best for me insults me as a technically savvy person. If Adobe is willing to make it, and it won't destroy my hardware, Apple should allow me to install it.
Sounds like you need to vote with your wallet... Apple doesn't have a mandate to make products that you like and no one is forcing you to buy them.

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post #23 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoColin View Post
Which is why I totally get not integrating Flash. But if you allow it to be offered as a plug-in, people will be far more likely to blame Flash for any problems. As it is people just blame Apple for their inability to view certain sites, is that so much better?
I disagree. Once installed, it will take 5 seconds for people, after clicking the "I Agree" button under the warning "Installing the Flash plugin may seriously destabilize your iPhone" to forget it, and blame all problems thereafter on the iPhone. Proof? Even in this thread - there are a few posts by people claiming that Flash is OK and it's Windows that crashes. That just cannot be further from the truth. In my more than 5 years of experimentation with HTPC, I have not had one case of Windows being crashed by anything other than media playing software and/or bad video/audio drivers, and I'm talking about XP, Vista and 7. Flash is right there too - although I haven't seen it really crash the OS, it is as reliable as the beta versions of most video playback programs I've tried. Hardware acceleration on video playback - has anyone ever seen that (I'm not talking about the checkmark under Flash Player properties)? And what's with the 64-bit browsers? Flash cannot work with them to this day.

I agree with Jobs on this. I also agree with those who say that Apple also has business reasons to want to kill Flash, but if it happens, it will hardly be missed by anyone.
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post #24 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 04:12 PM
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Judging from the success of Apple's offering, how fast they grew their market share of the smartphone market and the fact that pretty much every phone maker in the industry is now making Apple lookalikes, I really think that the answer is yes, it is much better. Success like that doesn't happen out of the blue, even Apple is not immune to a bad product (they have a long history of those).
But their product is not flawless. If it was they wouldn't release new versions. There are many good things about the iPhone, but Flash support is a gaping hole.

To be honest I don't care much about iPhone/iTouch Flash support, I accept limited browsing experiences from those platforms, it's the absence from the iPad that bothers me. The iPad should be powerful enough to support it, and if Apple wants to claim they offer the best web experience around they should allow support for all popular web standards, whether they like them or not.

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Sounds like you need to vote with your wallet... Apple doesn't have a mandate to make products that you like and no one is forcing you to buy them.
I did. I own an iTouch but I hated web browsing on it which was why I didn't consider an iPhone and went Android instead. At the time they offfered browser choice which Apple didn't and at least they have the possibility for Flash. I miss the app selection but I still think I made the right choice for me.

I'd like to reiterate that I'm not supporting Flash here. I don't like Flash, I'd rather HTML5, but Flash is out there a lot and I like even less being told that I can't have it because Steve Jobs knows best for me. I guess I'm just not Apple's demographic.
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post #25 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Microsoft's words of wisdom on the matter -

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/201...ml5-video.aspx

The future of the web is HTML5. Microsoft is deeply engaged in the HTML5 process with the W3C. HTML5 will be very important in advancing rich, interactive web applications and site design. The HTML5 specification describes video support without specifying a particular video format. We think H.264 is an excellent format. In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video only.

but later on in the statement, tosses a bone to Adobe -

Flash does have some issues, particularly around reliability, security, and performance. We work closely with engineers at Adobe, sharing information about the issues we know of in ongoing technical discussions. Despite these issues, Flash remains an important part of delivering a good consumer experience on today’s web.

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post #26 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 06:41 PM
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That's not much of a bone....with Apple and Microsoft both polarized against Adobe, I'd say Flash is in for a world of hurt.
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post #27 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-04-30, 07:24 PM
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Thumbs down

I think that customers should have the option of installing Flash. I resisted installing it for some time but now there are just too many sites that require it. Personally, I hate Flash and the problems it causes. OTOH, I need it for some web based applications and media sites. (Other sites get stopped by Flashblock.) Installing Flash should be my choice, not dictated by Steve Jobs.

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post #28 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-05-02, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Graph of video encoding on the web.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/01/h-2...ent-web-video/

The trend definitely favours H264 encoding in this graph. With the 3 big players - Apple, Microsoft and Google supporting H264 video I think the writing is on the wall for flash video.

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post #29 of 78 (permalink) Old 2010-05-06, 07:23 PM
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but H264 doesn't have interactivity capability like flash. Editing and creating flash animation is much easier and nowhere near as time consuming as doing a regular animation then converting it to H264

Two completely different beasts for two completely different applications.

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post #30 of 78 (permalink) Old 2011-03-03, 08:09 PM
 
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Smile iPad vs. flash

I'm seriously thinking about getting an iPad2 but I wonder if the inability to view Flash is an issue. I understand that HTML 5 is being used more and more can those of you who have an iPad find that this is an issue? From all I've read, the other tablets that can use Flash suffer from decreased battery life.

I'm so confused....
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