Rogers Navigatr Firmware/Guide - Please read post 1 And Links There. - Page 45 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #661 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 08:29 AM
 
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mobilemedia,

No, the so-called "designers" of Navigatr missed something (well, as you use it you'll find they missed a LOT).
Scheduled Recordings are on the same tile as recorded programs (up, right to get to scheduled tab).
That's IF there are still recorded programs for the same show (and note there may be multiple Tiles for the same show if you have more than one PVR in a Whole Home PVR setup, or they were recorded on different channels, or some were recorded as a series and some as individual programs - I have 5 different tiles all titled 22 Minutes for example).
If there are NO recorded programs, only scheduled, then those tiles appear AFTER all the tiles that have recorded programs.
If there are NO recordings, and NO scheduled recordings in the next week, then THOSE tiles appear at the bottom of the Pile o' Tiles.

You can use C to get a menu at lower right where you can change the sequence (BUT only 2 choices, Date or Alphabetical) and you can select to see All Recordings (scheduled & recorded), OR just Scheduled (but you can NOT select to see just Recorded) - AND you must choose the Save option when exiting out of that sub-menu.
But you'll still have a useless bunch of bathroom tiles - no list.

Intuitive, NOT !
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Last edited by neilpalmer400; 2016-02-04 at 10:00 AM. Reason: typos
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post #662 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 09:40 AM
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Navigatr just arrived this morning at my residence. I've only tried it out for about a minute, we'll see later when i get home from work.
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post #663 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 09:52 AM
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Yep. You're missing a decent user interface. If you have the latest, the future recordings should be at the bottom of those stupid tiles, after recorded shows.

I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...
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post #664 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 11:00 AM
 
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There is another thing that annoys me.

I am usually a few days behind with my recordings, so I have to go down a few rows to the program I want. That's ok, but what is not ok is that when I am done watching and deleting the program, I am back at the first tile.

RTN used to go to a more logical next or previous recording in the List.

Well, logic is certainly not in abundance at Rogers, so what can we expect.
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post #665 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpalmer400 View Post
mobilemedia,

No, the so-called "designers" of Navigatr missed something (well, as you use it you'll find they missed a LOT).
Scheduled Recordings are on the same tile as recorded programs (up, right to get to scheduled tab).
That's IF there are still recorded programs for the same show (and note there may be multiple Tiles for the same show if you have more than one PVR in a Whole Home PVR setup, or they were recorded on different channels, or some were recorded as a series and some as individual programs - I have 5 different tiles all titled 22 Minutes for example).
If there are NO recorded programs, only scheduled, then those tiles appear AFTER all the tiles that have recorded programs.
If there are NO recordings, and NO scheduled recordings in the next week, then THOSE tiles appear at the bottom of the Pile o' Tiles.

You can use C to get a menu at lower right where you can change the sequence (BUT only 2 choices, Date or Alphabetical) and you can select to see All Recordings (scheduled & recorded), OR just Scheduled (but you can NOT select to see just Recorded) - AND you must choose the Save option when exiting out of that sub-menu.
But you'll still have a useless bunch of bathroom tiles - no list.

Intuitive, NOT !
Hi Neil, Figured out the multiple tiles for same program I think.

If recorded as follow:

New, same time, same day. Creates a tile

All episodes, same time, same day. Creates a tile

All episodes, any time, same day. Creates a tile.

See where I am going, it appears if you record using same settings for all: one tile fits all.

I suspect recording on different channels could also cause a tile to be formed. I know you do a lot of backup

recording. Maybe if you stopped the backups you might reduce the number of tiles. Not a great solution but

might help.

I must admit that I'm quite pleased with the new guide, I have no problems with it, but the tiles are a bit of a pain.
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post #666 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 05:01 PM
 
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sammey,

Yes, the Guide itself is acceptable. Anyone with a STB vs PVR is probably happy (maybe that's where Rogers gets their "4 out of 5 dentists approve of Navigatr" statistic - I bet close to 100% of those with PVRs, and ESPECIALLY those with WHPVR and more than one PVR, would consider it about as useful as a car without a steering wheel).
The whole PVR part for scheduling/managing/viewing recordings is an absolute uncoordinated, inconsistent, untested disaster.

As for the multiple tiles for the same program title, you also seem to get a separate tile if it was recorded as a single program vs as a series.
THEN, apparently if you repeat those recording choices on another PVR in a WHPVR setup you can spawn another separate set of tiles for each recording choice. This all seems related to the EXTREMELY POOR design decision to place Recordings & Scheduled Recordings within the same tile.

The inability to determine, in a WHPVR setup with multiple PVRs, is a major shortcoming. As someone over on Rogers Commie Forums mentioned, it's important to know what PVR a recording is on for disk management purposes.
Say you are viewing one PVR and your disk is reaching 80%. You want to delete recordings on that PVR to bring down usage, but WHAT recordings are actually on that PVR ?
As far as I can tell you just have to start deleting recorded programs and if the disk usage drops after a delete it was on that PVR, it if doesn't it wasn't (and you may be deleting things from another PVR where the disk is maybe only 10% full).
OR - you have to unplug all PVR's, reconnect the power to one only, reboot, see what shows as disk % used and what you have as Recordings you know are on THAT PVR.
Then unplug that one, plug in another, reboot, rinse, repeat - until you have checked every PVR.
How pathetic. The worst thing is that someone actually got PAID to produce this huge steaming cow pat.

I also see, as expected, Rogers only did a half-a**ed job of making the fonts larger for those with less than perfect eyesight (apparently a disability requirement - as should be ease of use for turning on/off Closed Captioning). For example, notice the tiny font on the confirmation screen when you select to Delete a recording?
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post #667 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 05:26 PM
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Does AnyPlace Web, or one of the Apps help with this scenario of viewing different devices' recordings, disk space on WHPVR?

I know that I can use it (AnyPlace/App) to view recordings/scheduled recordings on my various PVRs, however, I do not have WHPVR.

Should this topic be under the WHPVR thread? I can move it there or leave it here.

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post #668 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 06:19 PM
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The latest disaster seems to be that many shows are not getting recorded. The timers are there, they show up in the guide as being scheduled. Next day they are MIA. What a mess.
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post #669 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 07:09 PM
 
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I got the upgrade earlier this week (being in Toronto) and was expecting the worse after reading comments in recent months. Mine went very smoothly on my NB3 with no loss of recordings, no changes in settings and the box is behaving normally so far. One HUGE improvement for me is the ability to hide OD channels. This was not possible before and would always end up on such channels by mistake or while surfing and hang my box while it tried to load. I never watch anything OD so not interested in them. They should have 1 portal for OD (like 100) where you can navigate to all the different offerings available instead of taking valuable channel numbers for each provider. The channel banner could look a bit different and include channel logos, but this is Rogers and they need another decade to catch up to 2005 technology.
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post #670 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-04, 09:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 View Post
Does AnyPlace Web, or one of the Apps help with this scenario of viewing different devices' recordings, disk space on WHPVR? I know that I can use it (AnyPlace/App) to view recordings/scheduled recordings on my various PVRs, however, I do not have WHPVR.
Should this topic be under the WHPVR thread? I can move it there or leave it here.
57 - to answer your questions:
1) AnyPlace TV Web/App are of no use, because they exhibit the same issue. Yes, you select which PVR you want to work with, but then ALL recordings & scheduled recordings for both PVRs show up no matter which you select (I think this is a recent bug, I recall it DID used to work properly in the past, so maybe that is tied in with the App now communicating with Navigatr code on the box).
2) Although you could argue both ways, this is a failure of Navigatr to show which PVR a recording is on, more than it is a WHPVR issue, because on RTN 5.1 and earlier you DID have this capability, so I think it belongs here with other Navigatr issues Yet another of many things either intentionally dropped, or overlooked in Navigatr.
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post #671 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-05, 12:59 AM
 
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Copy protection on composite output

I can confirm that with Navigatr the Composite Video output of the 9865 (Nextbox 3) is now putting out a copy protection (probably Macrovision) signal when you play back a recorded program to prevent DVR recording (and probably VHS/Beta too for those who still have them - I'll admit to a few VHS decks, but I didn't bother to test them). I tested with my 9865 and a Pioneer DVR-510H. As soon as I press the Record button on the Pioneer DVR I get the message "This content is copy protected."
It makes no difference whether you try to record something from a new recording made since the Navigatr upgrade, or an older one made pre-Navigatr (I tested it on a Conan recording from December 2014).

I just repeated the same test, with same results, using my 8642 (Nextbox 2) and a Pioneer DVR-633H.
NOTE: The Copy Protection signal is ONLY outputted when you are playing back a recording from the PVR (ANY recording).
It WILL allow you to record onto the DVR if you are watching a live TV channel.

Also note that during testing on my 8642 I couldn't believe how slow it was to respond to commands, and also found it wasn't communicating with my 9865 (it SHOULD do as I have WHPVR) and I couldn't play back recordings from the 9865 on it. I found a program that was actually recorded several months ago on the 8642 (EVENTUALLY - as with Navikrap you can't tell WHICH PVR a recording is on like you could with RTN 5.1 and earlier) and tested with that. When I finished with testing I pressed STOP to end playback, and the picture froze as if I had hit Pause, and ALL buttons on the remote had no effect (even Power) so I had to unplug the power cord and force a reboot. Navigatr definitely seems to be "a bridge too far" for the puny little processor and small mental capacity of the 8642.

PS - somewhere buried deep in my basement I think I have an old Macrovision Copy Protection defeater. If I can find that I might repeat the testing, but at present have no clue where it got to as I last saw it around 15 years ago.
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post #672 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-05, 01:06 AM
 
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8642's and SARA

57 - might be a nice side business if you can find a way to load SARA onto an 8642, which would presumably then vaccinate it against the Navikrap virus.
That might also have the added environmental benefit of avoiding mountains of 8642's ending up in landfill sites.
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post #673 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-05, 06:41 AM
 
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I have 3 friends with first generation 8642s with 160G iHDD. All are still happily running SARA. I wonder if someone owned a newer 8642 with Navigatr and installed a 160G iHDD if the system would load SARA.
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post #674 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-05, 08:51 AM
 
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Copy protection:

I saw someone on Rogers Forum report their Nextbox composite output no longer worked on a rear projection TV. Suggested a HDMI-Composite converter.

SARA on 8642:

I believe I recall there was an option to update those to the RTN guide, but it was irreversible. I believe all the ones with SARA are grandfathered and one with a new hard drive would load RTN or Navigatr.
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post #675 of 1333 (permalink) Old 2016-02-05, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpalmer400 View Post
I can confirm that with Navigatr the Composite Video output of the 9865 (Nextbox 3) is now putting out a copy protection (probably Macrovision) signal
It's probably CGMS-a, not Macrovision. Here's the thread on the topic - link below. If you've got an old "Video Stabilizer" it may not work if Rogers is passing a newer version of CGMS-a from the "broadcaster". It's possible that Navigatr is "using" the copy-once flag for the PVR and therefore you're not allowed to copy further, even though it was possible before. You could try contacting Rogers

Unfortunately, you'll need someone who understands what you're talking about at Rogers, which may require going up the chain several levels and even then it's doubtful. Almost no one has a DVD recorder or VCR connected to their PVR any more.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/203-...irst-post.html

It's also possible that Navigatr has (unintentionally?) disabled the composite output. Have you tried connecting directly to the TV using composite as a test?

If you've got a regular STB, like the 4642, since it cannot record on its own, it should allow you to record on the a DVD recorder - try that as a test if you get a signal on the TV from composite. You could also try going through the PVR without recording. One more thing to try - remove HDMI and try component video to the TV - or perhaps no (HD) connection directly to the TV at all when attempting to record?

Edit - confirmed elsewhere that you can record to a DVDr, if you don't first record onto the 9865 or 8642.

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