NextBox 3.0 (Cisco 9865) Discussions - Read Post 1 - Page 56 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #826 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-28, 12:03 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, ON
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by alebowgm View Post
From some others discussing it in this thread, it sounds as if the last firmware or two has issues with DD 5.1.

If your 8300 died, consider just replacing the hard drive and then supplementing it with an eSATA.
Thanks, I gather that, but don't understand why the box would work fine for a short while (hours) then suddenly start dropping's not as if the box is updating hourly. Of course I don't pretend to understand what the software is actually doing.

I thought of trying to replace the HD in the 8300 but I don't think it was the HD. Besides, for $180 I can get a refurb 8300HD with a 2-year warranty...which is worth it to me. Hopefully by the time two years go by Rogers will have something that works!
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post #827 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-28, 12:06 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, ON
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by 57 View Post
Do you have issues if you connect audio directly from the PVR to the Sound Bar? As mentioned in the FAQ (bolding), going "through" a TV is not recommended, although some people have it working for their equipment.
Thanks 57 -- I haven't tried that on this new box, but I will. But even if it works, I'll lose the connection to my Xbox 360, so it's not an acceptable solution, and I don't want to start getting into optical switches.
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post #828 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-28, 12:44 PM
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,576
For the rebooting, etc issue.. I don't think it can be 100% hardware, or even software.. for the amount that have the issue.. its too high of a number for just a few pieces of equipment bad sort of thing.

But as 57 said.. like some of his clients.. I have had pretty much NO issue. I have had ONE random reboot, since I got the box, pretty much when it came out.

I am wondering if its something from the headend.. that in bad areas, loosing signal temporarily, etc.. that its causing it to reboot or something?
My area, I have had maybe 2 'local' outages/problems in like 7 years (other than the few outages that effected say all Ontario) and is very stable. (always full internet speed, etc).

Rogers Ignite Xi6, LG 47LV5400 LED TV, Yamaha
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post #829 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-28, 12:51 PM
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Sharp LC75N8000U, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 9865
Posts: 56,313
neilpalmer400 has a number of posts that looks like this:

Other people do not have this number of issues and I would suggest that his situation - signal? heat? wiring? etc. contribute to his problems. Once the actual problem is sorted out, I believe he will have only occasional problems similar to the rest of you/us.

57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
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post #830 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-28, 12:57 PM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,776
The main problem I run into is when using the PoP feature. Sometimes a 'swap' will result in a crash. Other times after a 'swap' sometimes the box on the right will be black. This second issue can be fixed by just using the up/down arrow to re-tune the station.

Also when using PoP/PiP the clock will not always work and will rather show the channel tuned on Tuner 1. This is a longstanding Rogers issue that I have also seen on SARA.
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post #831 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-28, 05:21 PM
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 43° N, 81.2° W
Posts: 8,361
It seems like the reliability and stability of the 9865 became worse with the last two firmware updates. That's an indication of marketing types pushing new features being in control of the development process. It also points to misguided priorities and a weak development process, in the form of poor testing, especially regression testing. When Rogers gets its priorities right, by focusing on product quality instead of unnecessary features, maybe the problems with the 9865 will improve. In the meantime, Rogers will keep alienating customers and paying high costs for support, product churn and customer turnover. There are so many things wrong with the 9865, from the user interface to reliability, it's difficult to understand how Rogers can keep on its current course of adding unwanted features of questionable value. Even my partner hates these boxes and that's rare.
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post #832 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-28, 10:02 PM
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto, Rogers, NB 3.0, 70" Sharp LED, Toshiba 72" DLP RPTV connected to computer
Posts: 184
57 – I could go to my recordings list to watch a program – but then my only option is to begin watching the program from the beginning. There are occasions when I want to just drop into a program “live” and check it out, and in the just mentioned case, I wanted to start with the live program and go back two minutes to start watching from a couple of minutes ago. I just hate it when they take options AWAY that were available ‘yesterday.’

And not only that, now after the “upgrade” to 130 version firmware, now almost ALL of my Scheduled Recordings are DUPLICATED. Q$#%$%%$^%$%&^&# I’ve got TWO versions of shows that the box says it wants to record. One on the upper channel in the 500 range – and another version it says it wants to record on the corresponding same duplicate channel in the 0-100 channel range. OMG. Who came up with this “feature”? And why? And then I noticed that nice old consistent Rogers has CHANGED BACK the order of some menus to what they were some time ago – like the order of options in the Applications Menu. Six months ago they had the thing I use MOST often – Search – in the middle of the list, and then they ‘fixed’ things by moving it to the TOP of the choices – AND NOW THEY’VE MOVED IT BACK INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE CHOICES AGAIN. Geeze Rogers – make up your mind. And they’ve added Save Until Space is Needed to the Delete menu. Is ANYBODY ever actually going to use that choice? I can’t imagine using it myself. It just clutters my screen.

Hi Gary/Garfield. I think rebooting the box EVERY DAY may fix a host of problems. I’ve had a bunch of programs not record and some only record partially. I’m still not sure, but I wonder if daily manual reboots might reduce that problem too.

I think the managers that are making the choices about the manner that this firmware works are morons. The design decisions are just incredibly dumb – IMHO.

Hi Hooter. It might seem like I’m saying that EVERYTHING about the NB3 is awful – and that’s not the case – I’m just so incredibly irritated by bugs and poor design choices in the logic of the firmware that I’m ranting like a lunatic because the box drives me around the bend – but the ability to record 8 programs is nice – if the box let me watch a program while I was recording more than two programs, and the NB 3 is significantly more peppy than the dinosaur NB 2.

I’m not saying the NB is all bad – just that some things about it will want to make you throw it through your window at times. And I’m starting to think that the problems I’m having with the NB 3 are when it is recording MORE than two programs. I notice that if I can’t watch a recorded program (I get a black screen when I press Play in the program list screen) when the box is recording 3 programs, that if I stop recording one of those programs and am just recording two shows, that I have, on occasion, been able to watch a recorded program again.

So I’m thinking the box “runs out of resources.” Initially I thought it may be a problem with the signal level in my house – but I asked tech about that and they say No. And the box works fairly well if I MANUALLY reboot it EVERY DAY before I record my evening programs – but it’s really a pain to have to remember to do that – and if I forget – I can’t use the box to watch anything previously recorded-if it is recording several programs. So if I didn’t remember to reboot the box before 8 pm, I probably can’t watch anything on it until after 11 pm. THAT is a pain in the $#%^$#%.

And I guess it still really bugs me that the NB’s are missing out on about 15 nice features that WERE present in SARA. Little things like freeze frame and the ability to surf through the TV listings WHILE you can still press play and pause on the program you are in the middle of watching, and a dedicated channel 950 that remembered the program you were watching, so that you could temporarily leave watching a recorded program to glance at the news or weather, and when you returned to ch 950 the program was still there at the place you paused watching ready to continue. And missing are those little marks on the TV guide that show you that a movie or show actually begins at the left edge of the listing – so that you know that you haven’t missed out on the previous ½ hour or hour of the show.

So the box works REASONABLY well – but I’m still missing out on some programs that do NOT record, and some programs that only record partially – and I miss being able to record only parts of programs – either the first half or last half, and being able to skip quickly to the end of the program or in 15 minute intervals (the 3 minute skip is almost as useful if you hit it several times) – and I have to admit that the 3 minute skip forward is a VERY NICE FEATURE to say goodbye to commercials. But I even miss little things like being able to stop recording a delete a program in one step the way SARA did – and I used that feature several times a day – but then, I have to admit that I watch WAY too much TV.

So, in summary, Hooter, I’d say it’s almost a draw moving from the 8300 to the NB 3. DON’T suffer through the NB 2. It is agonizingly slow and stupidly underpowered in the processing chip. With the NB 3 you get a bunch of improvements over the 8300 – but there are also steps backwards. So it’s not a complete loss. You just have to decide for yourself whether you can live with what, for some people, is a less reliable PVR. Maybe I’m pushing the box too hard by asking it to record more than 2 programs at once AND play back a program at the SAME time.

So, Hooter, as 57 says, there are LOTS of users who are NOT having the problems that me and NeilPalmer are.

But, Hooter, please do tell us more about being banned from the Rogers forums. Did you tell too much truth about Rogers faults?

And I guess I’m also peeved that I just learned that I’ve been paying Extreme download internet prices for WAY TOO LONG – while my stupid generation 2 modem that I bought is not capable of giving me ANYWHERE NEAR the download speeds that I’ve been PAYING FOR.

And then I’m bugged that every month or two Rogers disables my PVR and limits my channels and stops me from making long distance calls (I’ve got stupid Rogers Home Phone) – and they do this because I haven’t paid my bill yet. I guess this seems fair to some – bit it’s still VERY irritating. Especially since I’ve signed up for long distance with another company – so I’m not paying Rogers for my long distance, but they AUTOMATICALLY BLOCK me from making long distance calls when they decide my payment is a bit late. And not only can’t I make long distance calls – THESE $%@!#$!#$ block me from even making COLLECT CALLS. I feel like they’re treating me like a little kid. So the rage you sense in my rant about the NB3 is coming from a WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS about Rogers that anger me far beyond words. My rants here are because I can’t afford to buy an F16 or B52 and make strafing runs at their headquarters.
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post #833 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-29, 03:08 AM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Waterloo ON - WHPVR 9865/8642/4642
Posts: 561
Problems, problems, problems


Issues with signal strength have been dismissed. When I got Rogers Internet about 3 years ago, before any of their PVRs, Rogers ran a new cable out from the box that is out front between my house and my neighbors. Rogers have been out on 3 occasions (on the first one they installed another signal booster, the second two found no problem with signal strength, and the diagnostics on the boxes confirms that).

Same with wiring and heat - no issues with those either. I'm convinced 99% of my issues are related to crap software (and being a programmer for many years I've seen plenty of crap software). I agree with HDTVaddict that software development on these boxes seems to be dictated by the marketing department, wasting programming hours adding useless unwanted new features, or messing up ones we had, instead giving us back features we had with SARA or fixing the problems with the RTN software

Now - why do I seem to have so many problems - apart from pure bad luck?
Well, I would say I am a HEAVY user of these boxes. Especially with Prime Time & Late Night recordings, when often the 8642 will be recording two programs, and the 9865 two or three, while one or two people are playing back recordings (usually one from the 9865 and another from a 4642).
And yes, with a 9865, 8642 & 4642 (previously two 8642's and a 4642) I must be one of the very few with Whole Home PVR with two PVR's - though a lot of my problems are NOT related to WHPVR.

Do we watch that much TV? Well, not really. Many recordings are double copies (or even triple - with a time shift recording from the west coast added too) of the same show because I simply no longer trust one box to NOT screw up. Admittedly they don't screw up as much as they used to (except for the usual problems with Rogers enforced Tuesday & Friday morning reboots when THEY decide the time, not the customer), but as I've been stung more than once I don't take chances anymore. I also work mostly from home and often have the TV on in the background while I am working (which could be anytime between 8am and 5am).

I'm not disagreeing with you that many may not be having problems, but I would suggest that maybe many of those are light users of the boxes, and probably don't record much (or any) late night programming.

Also, I keep detailed records of EVERY problem with these boxes. Ammunition for when it's time to extend heavy discounts with another call to Rogers.

And yes, I DO like to complain - if you hadn't guessed. :-)
I (like HDTVaddict and many others) will not accept paying good money for crap. Many people will simply not bother complaining, though they may never again buy a product or service from the company they have problems with. If I have problems with something I'm paying for I make sure the service provider or manufacturer knows about it - along with friends, relatives & business acquaintances who may ask my opinion.
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post #834 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-29, 10:39 AM
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,576
I would say that my household is a fairly heavy user of the 9865.
Not much during the day normally..
Evening though...
- 3+ 30 min kids shows (usually HD)
- 2-3 shows recorded in each timeslot between 8-11 (usually HD)

And LUCKILLY I have not had any issue.. maybe 1-2 missed recordings period since I got the box not long after release, and 1 random reboot, that's it.

My signal is like spot on perfect (worked with a tech a year + ago for like 3 weeks to get it right :P)... only thing DIFFERENT possibly in my setup, from other users, is that my PVR is pluged into a UPS.

Rogers Ignite Xi6, LG 47LV5400 LED TV, Yamaha
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post #835 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-29, 12:00 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London, ON
Posts: 29
Well I got home last night expecting to do battle once again with my NB3 but much to my pleasant surprise, it preformed flawlessly(!) the entire sound drop outs on any channel, either live or recorded playbacks. I wonder how long this will last. No doubt with my luck probably just long enough to get past the NB3 return period! LOL
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post #836 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-29, 02:25 PM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Waterloo ON - WHPVR 9865/8642/4642
Posts: 561


My 9865 is plugged into a UPS too.

Maybe that's why others have less problems.
Occasional power outages would force their boxes to reboot, which they seem to need a lot of, whereas mine doesn't lose power so doesn't get forced to reboot as often, therefore decides to do it itself. ;-)
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post #837 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-29, 02:39 PM
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Waterloo ON - WHPVR 9865/8642/4642
Posts: 561
Thumbs down New recording problem

OK - here's a new problem, started Oct 17 and now seems to happen frequently - usually the Tuesday/Friday mornings Rogers sends out updates.

This one log entry basically summarizes what is happening:

2013/10/25 - Friday morning messed up recordings

- Conan scheduled for 01:36-02:41a (extended 5 mins) Ch.518 CTVSH (Any timeslot), recorded 02:06-02:40a (start of the program is NOT missing - scheduled for Any timeslot but was correct start time today - I KNOW FOR A FACT BECAUSE THE OTHER PVR RECORDED THE SAME PROGRAM ON CHANNEL 12 (also CTVSH) 01:36-02:41a). Last 26 minutes of recording missing (with 5 minute extension actually should have recorded an additional 61 minutes). The program actually recorded 01:36-02:10a, not the 02:06-02:40a it shows.

Late Night With Jimmy Fallon scheduled for 03:37-04:36a Ch.581 HCTVV (Any timeslot), recorded 04:32-04:35a (start of the program is NOT missing - scheduled for Any timeslot but was correct start time today). Last 56 minutes of show missing. The program actually recorded 03:37-03:40a, not the 04:32-04:35a it shows.

Conan scheduled for 04:36-05:41a (extended 5 mins) Ch.581 HCTVV (Any timeslot), recorded 05:36-05:40a (start of the program is NOT missing - scheduled for Any timeslot but was correct start time today). Last 56 minutes of show missing. The program actually recorded 04:36-04:40a, not the 05:36-05:40a it shows.


So you see, even scheduling the same program to record from two different channels/time zones STILL doesn't guarantee you will get the program recorded properly.
That's why I had a third copy scheduled on the other PVR - and why I will NEVER go down to a single PVR because YOU SIMPLY CAN'T TRUST ROGERS NOT TO SCREW UP !!!

It's seems a shame that a company that was founded on Cable TV, before the Internet, Wireless or home phones other than Bell's existed, has dropped the ball so badly on what was once their core (only) business.

PS - I've done an UNPLUG forced reboot to see if that stops this latest example of bad behaviour.
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post #838 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-30, 12:46 PM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,776
Had a weird problem last night. Had a scheduled daily noon recording that, instead of ending at 1pm, kept going. At 11:15 I used the diagnostic menu to reboot the unit however all of my other scheduled recordings that evening did not record.
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post #839 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-30, 03:18 PM
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5
Has anyone with the diamond package successfully been able to exchange an 8642 pvr for a 9865 pvr?
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post #840 of 2415 (permalink) Old 2013-10-30, 04:55 PM
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Posts: 366
Originally Posted by dcracer View Post
Has anyone with the diamond package successfully been able to exchange an 8642 pvr for a 9865 pvr?
Yes, but it was a nightmare.

After spending over an hour in the store, and being sent away empty handed, I spent a good while on the phone, and the rep was able to do it... sort of. Ultimately they had to remove my "diamond discount" and find a (somewhat) equivalent discount to another one of my services. In this case, I was going to save X% on my internet, and it was "within $10" of my original package pricing. (edit: They then added the box, and I was able to go back to the store, pick it up, bring it home, and it plugged in and worked without issue. All the store did at that point was hand over the box)

Of course, when the bill came, my cost was nothing like my Diamond plan, and there was an early termination fee of some sort. On that follow up call, I was able to get it sorted out, and fixed (although I'm still paying a few bucks more a month then I was, but it's relatively negligible).

LG 50PJ550 / Samsung HW-D650s
Cisco 9865 PVR
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