Videotron put a bandwith limit on his Extreme High Speed - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-17, 04:19 PM
 
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Yeah I received this letter yesterday also. I've just called their customer service to let them know that I'm droping their service.

The rep told me that I would have to pay some fees, I told them to read their own Internet contract, it is clearly specified, that if Videotron changes the services, they have to tell you about the change 30 days before the effective date, and that under this same 30 days, the customer can change is service or cancel it at no charge.

French Internet Contract:

"3.9 Modifications - Vidéotron pourra, sur préavis d'au moins trente (30) jours au client transmis par courrier électronique à son adresse de messagerie Vidéotron ou transmis par la poste au client, modifier les Services ou toute autre disposition de la présente convention y compris les frais et tarifs stipulés au paragraphe 3.1. Aucun préavis ne sera toutefois requis à l'égard d'une modification des Services lorsque les prestations de Vidéotron en regard de ceux-ci demeurent semblables et qu'elles n'ont aucune conséquence sur les frais payables par le client. En acquittant le relevé de compte qui accompagne tout avis de modification de la présente convention, le client est irrévocablement présumé avoir accepté la modification. Le client pourra par contre, à l'intérieur du délai de trente (30) jours, résilier la présente entente ou en demander la modification de la manière prévue au paragraphe 11.4 ci-après, à défaut de quoi il sera irrévocablement présumé avoir accepté les modifications visées par l'avis."

The rep told me that it'll call me back with further informations. 30 minutes laters, another rep from the Fedility division called me to offert me the regular High Speed at 7 Mbps for 6 month at 19.95/month + the 30$ maximum per month if the limit is exceeded.

I took the deal and I told them, if they change the 30$ limit for unlimited in the future, they'll definatly lose me as a customer.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-17, 04:52 PM
 
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I have called Videotron few times to clarify some issues and to better understand the issue here...
And the reason for this sudden change is not so clear since everyone who answered me came up with different versions...
Anyways, for those who want to change or cancel the contract, there is no problem with that since there will be no penalty imposed.
And, I guess there will be lots of people switching to High-Speed Internet Connection with Videotron since there is no change in that plan. (The limit of 30$ for usage over 20GB is still valid. Even though it might change in near future.) So basically we can keep the "unlimited" version with less speed for the same price... for now...
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-17, 09:32 PM
 
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heh Mariobros,

You mentioned that videotron offers you that deal for 6 months! Then what? I will be considering that option too but I will hate to follow up with a different deal every 6 months.

Thanks in advance.
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-18, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
Comments like this one infuriate me. All one need do is download two Blue-ray movies to reach a 100 GB limit...but the poster implies there must be something extra-legal going on.
Please name a legal Blue-ray movie download service operating in Canada today.

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Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
The only legal question is why canada does not have consumer protection laws that would allow suing Videotron for deceptive advertising, luring consumers into signing up and then changing the terms of their service.
It's well-known amongst a small circle that broadband providers oversell/underprovision. I'm showing my my age, but back in the days of dialup, many ISPs were honest and up-front about their customer-to-modem-port ratio. They would quote the number in their advertising. Having "only" 10 times as many customers as modem ports was considered very good by knowledgable subscribers. Rather than outright regulation of over-provisioning, I would prefer that a percent-provisioned ratio to be stated in ads, sorta like APR when credit cards are being advertised. Take the total available bandwidth (megabits per second). Divide by the sum of all the bandwidth sold to customers. The higher the percentage, the better you look.

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Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
Nor is it appropriate to compare to an electrical meter - a better comparison would be a home phone where you sign up for unlimited calling but find out unlimited only means X hours per month.
I believe electricity is a better analog than phones; here's my reasoning.
  • Phone companies generally provision for 10% of all residential customers being in a phone call at any one time. That's why, during snow storms, etc, authorities beg people not to make phone calls unless absolutely necessary. And it can take several minutes to get a dial tone. Each customer is alike, regardless of how fast they talk. It's a strictly binary result. When almost "all circuits are busy", you either get a dial tone or you don't.
  • Electricity is a total sum situation. Customers place different levels of demand on the system. An 8-megabit customer can place a lot more demand on the system than an "internet lite" customer. And an 8 megabit customer downloading from a powerful server can place a lot more demand on the system than another 8 megabit customer downloading painfully slowly from an overloaded server. And like electrical service during a "brownout" (voltage reduction), people can still connect, but everybody's internet speed is reduced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
The problem here is that Videotron was selling something they never had - the infrastructure to support this kind of usage.
All residential ISPs do that. You want "five-nines" guaranteed speed availability like a business... be prepared to pay like a business. As I mentioned above, I would like this to be made public, so that consumers can make an informed decision.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-18, 10:42 AM
 
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Walter Dnes,
First of all, it is not up to you nor Videotron to judge what their users download are legal or not... and as far as I know, in Canada, downloading stuffs thru internet, even if it is protected by Intellectual Property Law, as long as it is not used commercially, it is legal. (That is the Supreme Court's decision! I have not checked if there was any new Supreme court judgement on IP issue...)

Secondly, your comparison to electricity doesn't really apply to this case since Videotron OFFERED unlimited bandwidth and some people are talking about abusif use of bandwidth... how can that make sense!!!

When a user is offered unlimited bandwidth, it means he/she can use whatever amount of bandwidth needed! It is Videotron's obligation to provide better service or install better equipment to respond to their customers' needs. (or change the terms of contract like this case...)

Videotron is free to change their terms of offer, since it is clearly stated so... but it is also consumers' right to formally complain and demand for valid reasons for the change... (not that Videotron has any obligation to answer... if they don't, they will lose some customers and that would the penalty they are paying for)
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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-18, 10:51 AM
 
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One more thing...

As a consumer, I am disappointed in Videotron by the fact, when our technology seems to advance at a very high speed, Videotron is actually going backward with their service...

By the way, I am a Canadian-Korean, and in Korea, they have VDSL and super cable (or something like that) which allows them to download/upload at 10MBps (not 10Mbps)... And the monthly fee for the service is cheaper than Canada... anyways, just to say there are better technology in the world to support fast-growing internet market demands!
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-18, 11:04 AM
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As discussed previously some service providers are willing to lose the very few customers that are the very heavy users - this actually increases their overall profitability since their costs are lower and they lose very little money from these few users lost. This is a business decision as discussed above.

Up until recently this was also Rogers' philosophy - if you went over the cap a few months, you were no longer a Rogers internet customer. Rogers then implemented a soft cap and began charging $1.25/G over the limit and this has kept some customers (probably the ones who modified their activity a bit or didn't mind the occasional extra charge) who would have left. I guess Videotron is doing the same at a slightly higher cost/G.

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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-18, 11:17 AM
 
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I do agree it is a business decision, and don't have a problem with it...

But do you have the stats to back your argument when you say there are only "few" heavy users? And, what is the definition of the "heavy users"?

Also, just for curiosity, when you only need to use 1-2 GB per month, why would you pay more to get Extreme High-Speed when you can have regular High-Speed...?

Usually, people who downloads a lot or uses lots of streaming video thru internet are more sensitive to better internet speed and bandwidth limit... and frankly, I think there are a significant amount of people like that...
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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-18, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackBear78 View Post
1. But do you have the stats to back your argument when you say there are only "few" heavy users? And, what is the definition of the "heavy users"?

2. Also, just for curiosity, when you only need to use 1-2 GB per month, why would you pay more to get Extreme High-Speed when you can have regular High-Speed...?
1. I believe the number of users who exceeded the cap was around 1-2%, while they were creating costs for the service provider of much higher than that. This was discussed in one of the Torrent or Cap threads, although I can't find it right now.

2. Not sure if this question was to me, but I DO use Express (What you call regular) instead of Extreme and noticed no difference in performance.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...7&postcount=22

Note that they recently increased the Express Speed:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=63153 (post 4)

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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-18, 12:48 PM
 
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Quote:
A friend of mine called up Videotron and they basically told him they now have to enforce that policy because some people were running "internet servers" off their connections.
that's pure ********. they already block ports 80 and 21. I want to get a list of facts together and give them a call and play "stump the customer service rep". I have one of them little phone recording devices. It would make for a great youtube submission
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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-19, 01:34 AM
 
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@ Oink,

yeah well after six months, the regular fees applies. But since I have Illico also, I have the regular 10$ off. So the regular price of the High Speed Internet is 58.85$. If you take a 12 months contract, it comes down to 48.95$ and if you have Illico, another 10$ off, so it comes down to 38.95$. If you add the 30$ for the extra bandwith, , your unlimited high speed internet just cost you 68.95$, which is 4$ more than the current Extreme High Speed Unlimited. If you don't have Illico, this comes up to 78.95$, which is a little expensive for an Internet connection I beleive.

But if you are not a customer of Illico, you'd better going with the Business High Speed Internet plan. It is available to everyone, not only business. In this case, you pay 69.95$ for your unlimited 7 Mbps internet connection.
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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-19, 11:01 PM
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I do agree with the complainers about one point; advertising "unlimited" internet bandwidth is an outright lie if the user can't run up/downloads flat out 24x7. All residential ISPs oversell their bandwidth, some more so than others. Cable ISPs seem to have more problems than ADSL ISPs http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...th-crunch.html

ADSL ISPs have the advantage that phone lines were always intended for two-way communications. ADSL (Asymmetric DSL) is a marketing decision. However, SDSL (Symmetric DSL) is available if you're willing to pay for it.

Cable was originally one-way, carrying analog TV signals to the customer. With the advent of digital cable, it was a business decision to allocate the minimum upstream bandwidth, in order to leave as much as possible for downstream to be able to sell more digital channels. This decision has come back to bite them in the ass, big time.

I think the only solution is to be honest with one's customers. ISP's CANNOT reallistically promise unlimited bandwidth on residential connections. At my new condo, everybody is on their own separate electrical meter. That's how it'll have to be with internet bandwidth.
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-21, 11:21 PM
 
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Thanks Mariobros,

I will look into the business high speed package. I have kept my support of Quebecor down to the bare minimum, that means $5 more per month for a downgrade in speed but similar deal as the one I am using otherwise. It is just annoying to think of going back for more abuse. I wish my phone line is decent enough to go with a more honest ADSL provider. Five years ago, I switched to ADSL for a month, but ended up going back to videotron because of the old phone line.
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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-23, 09:32 PM
 
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bouche, anybody that know a little bit how to make a server will redirect the server on another port... It take about 1 min to setup a redirection to another port from a free service...
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 2007-08-24, 01:16 AM
 
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the only thing you really need is a static ip address (which i believe most cable companies have) and little bit of server knowledge. it's not hard.


nem, who felt like padding his post count a little bit

The preceding post and all opinions expressed are solely those of the poster and do not reflect the opinions of any other person or business
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