Capacitors - Bell Receivers (Known Fail Locations) - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-03-15, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Capacitors - Bell Receivers (Known Fail Locations)

This is a thread just for the discussion and postings of known locations of capacitor failures on Bell TV Satellite Receivers. If you post in this thread you should include the model of the receiver, the capacitors locations (ex. C393), voltage of the capacitor (ex.10V) and capacitance of the the capacitors (ex. 10 uF rating)

Known issues:

(6141)
C440 - 820uf 6.3V
C78 - 820uf 6.3V
C762 - 2200uf 10V
C43 - 100uf 10V (added after post 9)
C44 - 100uf 10V (added after post 9)

(6400)
C64 - 820uf 6.3V
C141- 820uf 6.3V

(9241)
C152 - 820uf 6.3V
C164 - 820uf 6.3V
C272 - 820uf 6.3V
C273 - 820uf 6.3V
C944 - 2200uf 10V
C929 - 1200uf 6.3V
C355 - 1200uf 6.3V
C288 - 1200uf 6.3V
C309 - 1200uf 6.3V

(9242)
C375 - 680uf 10V
C393 - 680uf 10V
C282 - 820uf 6.3V
C286 - 820uf 6.3V
C338 - 1200uf 6.3V
C419 - 1200uf 6.3V
C439 - 1200uf 6.3V

Typical symptoms you may see: freezing, lagging, pixelation, unresponsive remote, or slow to change channels (more then 4-5 seconds) and/or random reboots or constant cycling (reboots it self indefinitely)

NOTE: It is also possible your INTERNAL Hard Disk Drive may have failed (Applies to the 9200/9241/9242/9400), but that isn't typically the case. So if you do change all your caps ensure you can playback one of your first recordings and last recordings to ensure all is well with your Hard Disk Drive. If you are unable to boot back up after changing them you may have a Hard Disk issue/failure.

Any additions or if something is missing please submit them here or PM me. Thank you hopefully this helps someone in the future.

Last edited by 57; 2015-03-15 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Minor
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-04-02, 05:54 PM
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Can you indicate the location of the emphasized one? I've replaced the others on a 9241, but I'd like to keep an eye on that remaining one and replace it when I can get the right capacitor. Thank you for this helpful info.

(9241)
C152 - 820uf 6.3V
C164 - 820uf 6.3V
C272 - 820uf 6.3V
C273 - 820uf 6.3V
C944 - 2200uf 10V
C929 - 1200uf 6.3V
C355 - 1200uf 6.3V
C288 - 1200uf 6.3V
C309 - 1200uf 6.3V
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-04-04, 01:11 PM
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As discussed in another thread (and hinted at in post 1), when you have the STB open, it's always a good idea to change all the caps, not just any that are obviously bulging/bad. The small amount of extra time/money is worth it so that you don't run into similar issues in a short time.

It was the same when doing ICs in the old RPTV CRTs.

It's the same when you get your timing belt changed on your car - you do the water pump and any other wearing parts at the same time while it's apart. The small incremental time/cost is almost always worth it, unless you're planning on selling it right away and giving future problems to someone else.

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-04-05, 04:06 PM
 
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Capacitor Specifications

I'd like to make some comments on capacitor specifications:

As far as capacity (uF) goes, you want to duplicate that if possible but electrolytic caps aren't terribly precise components, usually +/-20%. There is an industry standard that sets out capacity values so you won't encounter too many "odd" values in a typical circuit. If I was stuck, I wouldn't hesitate to try the next larger size to replace an electrolytic cap.

The voltage value marked on a capacitor is a "maximum working voltage". Therefore, if a cap is spec'd at 10v and you expose it to a voltage that's higher or even near its rated voltage it's liable to fail, sometimes visibly, sometimes not. Bulging seems to be the common symptom here but they can also leak, sometimes under the cap itself where you won't see it.

Typically with components that have a maximum value that they can withstand, usually current or voltage, you want to derate them by 50% when designing a circuit. If you had a circuit where the capacitor will be exposed to as much as 10V, you would ideally use a cap rated at 20V. You could use a 50V cap or anything higher - it wouldn't make a bit of difference other than the cost.

So the question is, what is Bell/Dish/whoever doing wrong, at least from the consumer's point of view? They're using cheap caps, not derating the voltage properly, or both. I think we'd all guess the latter. Perhaps they're using 6.3V caps on a 5V circuit. Yes, it's enough to keep the box from blowing up when you plug it in, but eventually you're liable to see a failure. Or the caps could be derated properly but are just junk.

The manufacturing cost to step up the voltage rating is probably minimial but I'm sure they've calculated the savings in making most of their boxes work just long enough for the warranty to expire.

Obviously we don't know what voltages these caps are exposed to, so if you're replacing them, step the voltage up on the replacements, again about 2x the original. We can probably assume the replacement caps are of better quality and if they're rated at a higher voltage then you've covered all the bases.

The last thing you have to look at is size - will the replacement fit where it has to go? When you're installing them, note that they do have a + and a - terminal and shouldn't be installed backwards.

Electrolytics don't like heat either but there's not much we can do about that other than keeping the fan working, adding additional cooling, or running the box with the lid off.

I hope this helps.

Kevin
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-04-10, 12:30 AM
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Using Tanner's original photo, I've given it an update to show the location of all the caps that tend to fail early in a 9241, just in case others need to replace them, even if they aren't leaking or bulging:



C152 - 820uf 6.3V (blue)
C164 - 820uf 6.3V (blue)
C272 - 820uf 6.3V (blue)
C273 - 820uf 6.3V (blue)
C944 - 2200uf 10V (yellow)
C929 - 1200uf 6.3V (red)
C355 - 1200uf 6.3V (red)
C288 - 1200uf 6.3V (red)
C309 - 1200uf 6.3V (red)

A big thanks to m3repair for letting me know the location of the C944 cap.

EDIT by Dr.Dave: here's the link in case the image isn't visible
http://i61.tinypic.com/a3ggie.jpg
coxwain and v-man like this.

Last edited by Dr.Dave; 2018-10-11 at 02:40 PM. Reason: added link
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-04-24, 07:04 PM
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Kevin, these are some very issues and unfortunately they cannot be blamed on either the designer or the technician who looks after the stuffing of their receivers. It is very important that the designer mentions the voltage rating of a capacitor when the PCB schematics are being finalized so that they could be accounted for while stuffing the PCB. Unfortunately most companies don’t follow this rule and end up having capacitors of non-recommended values on their boards which leads to such errors.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-04-24, 08:43 PM
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I am sure the voltage rating is probably fine for the application.
Component quality and choice of vendors can play a role for sure.
But, what happens in the manufacturing environment is unknown to you and I or anyone else here, because we don't work there.

Where I used to work however they used to make sure electrolytic capacitors were hand stuffed/soldered after a PCB came out of the post solder wave cleaning process. This practice was taken on to eliminate the possibility of chemical contamination creeping in to supposedly sealed components like capacitors, thus causing premature failure after having plenty of time to react with the innards...
I am not sure in a high volume manufacturing facility they would spend the extra money for that extra "manual labor".
When profit margins aren't very high it's just not worth it for 'em.

All electrolytic capacitors will fail sooner or later, ... Some may last a year, some may last 5 years, some may last 50 years...
it's just a matter of when...

Put it this way, every electronic device designed / manufactured in the last 85+ years with electrolytic capacitors,
has had some that fail.

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-05-27, 12:28 AM
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Link for 6400 Caps:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...54#post2517754

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-09-21, 03:08 PM
 
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My 6141 was unable to lock on 91. C78 & C440 (820UF) and C762 (2200UF) were leaking.

After replacing the 3 capacitors the unit still would not lock on.

I replaced C43 and C44 100UF/10V . ( At input tuner area), the capacitors looked fine but decided to replace them.

now the receiver is 100% working again.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 2015-10-03, 10:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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@kenneth thanks for the feedback regarding your cap swap on your 6141, I haven't seen those particular caps fail but its good to know that they can possible fail as well, Thanks @57 for adding it to the list, again much appreciated
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 2016-05-26, 02:11 PM
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Is there a picture diagram for the 9242 cap locations?
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 2016-06-07, 05:00 PM
 
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9400 Capacitors

I am having an issue with one of my 9400's. During buffer playback or PVR playback, I am getting audio stutter and having issue skipping forward or fast forwarding (it will stop randomly while fast forwarding). I was thinking that is is a hard drive starting to fail but want to make sure that there are no capacitor issues. There is no issue watching live TV.

If someone can tell me how to upload some pictures to the forum I can include those as well. I don't see any signs of an issue but wanted some additional feedback. Can someone let me know what the known capacitor failures are in the 9400?

Thanks,

Kevin

Last edited by kandkt; 2016-06-07 at 07:33 PM.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 2016-06-08, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kandkt View Post
If someone can tell me how to upload some pictures to the forum I can include those as well.
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/52-d...tal-forum.html

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 2016-06-15, 12:27 AM
 
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I can't seem to upload any pictures. It keeps saying that it is an invalid format. The picture is in jpg format and resized to 800x600. I am using a Mac if that makes a difference. Help.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 2017-07-23, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigulmer View Post
Is there a picture diagram for the 9242 cap locations?
Is there an answer for this? I think I need to do both my 9242 units.
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