Bandwidth Hog on our net - advice please - Page 3 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #31 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-05, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Good article "How Much Bandwidth do I Need?

Article:

How Much Bandwidth do I Need?


http://www.ctrl-shift.net/today/2011...dth-do-i-need/


A very good article found on the internet describing how much bandwidth is needed for various types of services and activities on the internet.

The TABLE near the bottom of the article is really good, and sums up information I've read, here and there, in a few different articles on the internet.

It seems to be a fairly recent article, looks like May 4, 2011.
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post #32 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-05, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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ScaryBob, in an earlier post, has mentioned something very important.

Thank you ScaryBob for this advice:

"Possible legal ramifications" for the internet account holder - if the individual using the internet, is doing anything illegal with their internet usage.

I felt it my responsibility to mention this to the owner.

Again ... the owner is concerned. With justification I believe.

We do not wish to invade the privacy of the individual or snoop. No.

But we have no real way of actually knowing what the high usage is.
It continues to be of great concern.

Based on the "other" things that are happening, the level of trust and confidence with the individual is starting to go down, and come into question.

I do not wish to discuss what those "other" things are. It would not be appropriate. Also, not "on topic" with the discussion of internet usage here in this thread.

I think this is a good thread - we are discussing some important issues.
Relevent for others.

Aside from the large usage and cost issue ...
Having a home net and sharing the internet is a difficult thing - esp. with an individual or "friend" ...where trust and confidence may become an issue.

Thank you.

All concerns seem valid.
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post #33 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-05, 11:31 AM
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The overage cost is a non-issue in the long term. TSI has unlimited plans for under $50/mo. Nobody needs to pay $60 overage charges.

Tenants in Ontario have very specific rights. They cannot be evicted with an hours notice (unless the rent by the half hour.) I believe that two rental terms' notice must be given. That two weeks for weekly rentals and two months for monthly rentals. It's probably a good idea to rent by the week, for reasons made obvious in this thread. A lap up side the head? Only if you want to spend a year in court and another in jail.

Some of the more recent posters here seem to have some misconceptions and very bad advice. Bad tenants are a very real problem for landlords, as are bad landlords for some tenants. There is much more at stake here than the amount of internet usage.

If the landlord supplies internet to future tenants, I suggest that he spell out "acceptable" internet usage, in writing. It's probably best not to provide such amenities. Note that supplying internet to tenants may be against the ISP's term of service. If so, the landlord may want to get his own (and the tenant's) service disconnected for cause. The tenant would likely move on if his free internet access is lost.

Noise and other issues also need to be well defined in rental agreements. Many locations have bylaws regarding noise during late night and early morning hours. I suggest the landlord look at the landlord/tenant laws and local bylaws to find a solution.

At 20 I had a good mind. At 40 I had money. At 60 I've lost my mind and my money. Oh, to be 20 again. --Scary
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post #34 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-05, 10:46 PM
 
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i'm a landlord.

My tenants get their own internet (licensed student house w 5 students). They handle their own bills and bandwidth.

Ask the landlord to discount the rent by whatever he sees fit (either 50% of existing internet bill between himself and the tenant) and ask the tenant to get his own internet.

P

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post #35 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-06, 06:17 AM Thread Starter
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I am not a landlord. And I hope to never ever be a landlord.

I have seen what it takes to be a landlord.

I do know some of the many many difficult issues landlords face.

It is definitely not easy to be a landlord.

I am no expert in the field of "being a landlord" - by no means.

But I have an inside view of the "business" of being a landlord - having assisted a few landlords in their rentals.

It's tough. Lots of work and effort. Many issues. Many different types of issues.

Be very grateful to your landlord. Help them. Listen to them.
Pay on time. Don't mess around in the place. Be straight.

Providing what your landlord is providing is not easy.

Thanks.
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post #36 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-06, 12:30 PM
 
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Lightbulb hit the killswitch!

you're going to kill the line 1st, then explain your concerns with badwidth vampire. 180GB/month from 1 user is too far extreme, think about your neighbors who has VPN/tele-commute jobs and schoolkids doing online homework.
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post #37 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-07, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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Nimiq USA

Yes, good point. Thank you.

Yes, your concerns are also on my mind / have also been on my mind.

One user - using so much bandwidth - could have wide ranging effects for others "in society at large".

One user - using so much bandwidth - for "entertainment" (we are fairly sure) - could be impeding others who use the internet for serious and important work.

This is not good for society at large / others on the internet nearby.

There is a larger issue at play here ... as you mention.

Very good points coming out in this thread.

We'll see what can be done ... shortly I think.
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post #38 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-07, 10:24 AM
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You're blowing this out of proportion. It will definitely affect users in the same house but "society at large"? C'mon. Rogers has a cap of 250GB on their Ultimate package and you can get unlimited with Teksavvy. Focus on the extra cost and others in this house and leave "society at large" out of it.
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post #39 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-07, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
One user - using so much bandwidth - for "entertainment" (we are fairly sure) - could be impeding others who use the internet for serious and important work.
The internet is will be just fine with users transferring 180GB of data/month. When this was discussed a year ago, it was said that the marginal cost of a gigabyte of bandwidth (for a ISP) is around a penny, so that 180GB of traffic cost your ISP under $2 to transfer.

In my house we watch streaming video all the time (Netflux/Hulu/YouTube), we download games (usually via Steam), and usually have some radio show being played on Sonos. Our router records the amount of bandwidth we use, and so far in March we've used ~66GB of traffic (just checked my router). So, we're on track to use well over 180GB this month (it'll probably be 250GB - 325GB).

And you know what? All the "serious" and "important" work that needed to proceed on the internet (VPN, programming, email, etc) wasn't affected.

Quote:
One user - using so much bandwidth - could have wide ranging effects for others "in society at large".
mrvanwinkles, I realize that you're not a technical person, and that you may be trying to help. The thing is from reading your posts here I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill, and making it sound like streaming a movie over Zune (~9GB) or downloading World of Warcraft (28GB) is destroying society.

Well, you're wrong. In the future this sort of bandwidth will be very normal. Some of us are leaders in this area (some of us are getting most of our content via the 'net already) and some of us are followers (e.g. those who don't have Netflix yet). Modern networking equipment can handle the bandwidth just fine thank-you-very-much. Maybe this person in question should get his own internet account if he is causing bandwidth overage charges for someone else, but "wide ranging effects for others in society at large?" Seriously? What are you smoking?
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post #40 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-07, 11:49 PM
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I wanted to point out that I don't think 170 gigs is being a hog. If you were in Western Canada or most of the US, that amount would fall well below the monthly cap.

There's gotta be a real ISP out there who can offer a better package?
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post #41 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-08, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Good thing the ISP themselves - put some limits on people's usage and speed.

Good thing the ISP applys some good "network management" of their own, on a client by client basis - otherwise who knows where we'd be in society.

Learning more and more folks ... soon I will have enough "knowledge" and "expertese" to slow this fella down.

I think we are almost there.

We could shut him down right now if we wanted to ... by simple physical disconnection - but we've decided to handle this situation very carefully.

We have decided to think carefully before we act. And be very sure of what we do.

Sorry you may not all agree.

Digging more into the terms and plans and features of the ISP - we have found that the ISP is actually very very good (!)

If one wanted to ... on the ISP's web application, one could track monthly usage online, and daily usage online- accumulating for the current month.

And even go back and look at the same detailed (monthly or daily) usage for the previous month.

And go back 6 months and see previous monthly usage (perhaps not daily usage back 6 months).

Upstream and Downstream usage.

Really good.

And the ISP already informs the account holder when they have reached their monthly usage limit.

Yes ... good information.

Continuing to learn alot with this issue.

Thanks all.
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post #42 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-08, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mrvanwinkles View Post
Good thing the ISP themselves - put some limits on people's usage and speed.

Good thing the ISP applys some good "network management" of their own, on a client by client basis - otherwise who knows where we'd be in society.
I vehemently disagree with these statemements and I would bet that most Internet users in Canada would agree with me - hence the uproar over UBB a year ago. The monthly data caps and aggressive traffic shaping on the part of ISPs is not done for a societal good it is done to prevent the business model of ISPs from being disintermediated by internet delivery of media content. Other countries that don't have these limits don't have problems and some ISPs in Canada have moved away from these actions - Bell Canada is getting rid of traffic shaping.

You should really get off of is "societal good" line of thinking as I don't think you really understand the issue in depth.

By the way, did you know that you could use utilities like Wireshark to "peek" into his network traffic?
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post #43 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-08, 08:27 AM
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Wow I think my head exploded after reading this thread. I am still not sure why you are just not asking this person what they are doing to consume so much bandwidth. Why are you looking for ways to monitor it without his knowledge? Also why is a landlord sharing his internet with a tenant in the first place?

I know if I ever had an apartment or house to rent out one of the first things in the agreement would be tenant required to obtain their own internet agreement with an ISP. I would not want my name on any bill or service that I do not have control over....especially the internet.

I agree with Wayne that you do not understand the issues that are being presented here with some of what you are posting (hard to read as well). This is not a society issue its an issue that should be worked out behind closed doors...
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post #44 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-08, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Again, I'm sorry that we may not all necessarily agree on some of the things discussed.

Anyway ... Learning ...

Learning that ...

Ethernet Port (physical port) Quality of Service, QoS, on many of the "home" routers - the Manual Kbs speed setting / value - can be quite a "tricky" or "sensitive" setting - and one must be careful how one sets this.

Careful - cause I'm learning that this setting on the router is the "Upstream" speed limit setting.

In other words - "Upstream" - the speed that computer on the Home network, the "LAN" side, can send DATA "UP" towards the internet.

This Upstream speed is usually a much smaller speed than the "Downstream" speed.

("Downstream" speed, is the speed that you can receive DATA *from* the internet / ISP to the computer/device on the home network / LAN side.)

They recommend doing several "speed tests" to see what sort of Upstream speeds you are actually getting up to your ISP. Average those numbers. And that can give you a initial guide on what sort of MANUAL settings you might try.

examples / numbers like 300 kbs or 900 kbs Upstream are shown.

It depends on your service - what kind of speed your ISP is giving you / and or what kind of speed you are actually getting. [possibly what data and speed "plan" / level of service you have with your ISP]

Actual speed measured can vary with other things too - I'm sure. Time of day. Other traffic. What services you're trying to use on the net, what websites / servers you're sending data to ... etc.

Anyway ... they recommend - for manual settings on a VOIP device - try 90% of your average speed measured. And they claim this will help avoid "choppy" voice on VOIP.

Trying to determine good settings to slow down one physical connection a little - one physical connection that's using alot too much bandwidth - that could be a different matter. Might be tricky.

But in any case ... we have some ideas for determining some starting numbers.

I hope I have understood this correctly ...
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post #45 of 65 (permalink) Old 2012-03-08, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you.

We do not want to "PEEK" into the usage and we are not interested in looking for way to monitor the user's individual usage.

(Still concerned about it though - as mentioned earlier - concerned if that usage might be something that is not so "good")

As mentioned - we wish to respect privacy / and be respectful of the individual - but something has to change.

It is the total usage of the account holder that we wish to monitor.
(so we know when the usage limit is reached - or near reached)

Speaking with the individual (again) - that is probably coming.

(the issue has already been discussed with the individual - back awhile ago)
( so ... already done actually. )
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