Copyright bill would ban breaking digital locks - Page 3 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #31 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 10:34 AM
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I know that the legislation can be interpreted many ways but I dont think it was meant to affect ripping habits of properly owned content
It doesn't matter what you think. The wording is there to disallow it. And we all know how the RIAA fought and is still fighting to make any ripping of any kind illegal. Remember, you do not own the content in any way, shape or form. You say "properly owned content", but you do not own any of it. Just the medium.
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post #32 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 01:13 PM
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As much as I generally have nothing good to say about the RIAA or CRIA, let's be fair ... they have never gone after anyone for personal format shifting or similar things. They've only gone after people who upload copyrighted content.
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post #33 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 01:35 PM
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post #34 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 01:44 PM
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The point was that no one has ever gone after an individual for a library of recorded TV, backups of DVD's, or format shifting digital content. With respect to individuals, industry associations have never prosecuted legal action except against those who upload (downloading through P2P equals uploading).
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post #35 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 01:52 PM
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Perhaps, but I'd rather not have my private usage rights and the hardware I buy to utilize those rights be dependent on how "friendly" the CRIA was feeling today.
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post #36 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 01:54 PM
 
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This will all change if the bill becomes law, I'm not sure there are any legal sources of movies out there without DRM. iTunes has it in it right?

Michael Geist's blog and his SpeakOutOnCopyright.ca have some good information if anyone is interested.
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post #37 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 02:10 PM
 
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If it is not designed to go after people who own media and format shift, why is the digital locks provision in there? If that is the case, the digital locks provision needs to change to spell this out explicitly, just like it spells everything else out.

Any DVD you buy has locks on it to prevent copying. You can't just copy and paste from Windows Explorer - it won't work. You need to decrypt (break a digital lock) to rip to a hard drive. By leaving a specific provision in and then not enforcing it, the government is admitting that certain laws are ok to break.

The intention is to not allow backups of any kind so that when you lose, break or damage the original media you need to go out and spend more money on a new copy. This bill is all about the money - more for content producers, less for consumers.

The market has been quite successful at reducing piracy through removing DRM, lowering prices and giving choice to consumers. The government and Bell's lapdog, the CRTC, have been pushing us back through bandwidth caps, high prices and limited internet competition/speeds. If the government really wants to reduce priacy, they will open up the Internet for Canadians so that purchasing a movie or two a month doesn't end up costing us additional money in extra bandwidth. These restrictions on the Internet in Canada are holding back investment in new digital video distribution outlets.

Not to give the powers that be any ideas, but if they were to invest a little time and money in flooding torrent sites with viruses, they would be even more effective at reducing priacy through P2P than any law or fines. A lot of movie/music priates are not teck savvy and would be bogged down by viruses and the cost to remove them pretty quickly.
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post #38 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 02:10 PM
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The DMCA has been law in the US for 13 years without a single legal action taken against an individual for copyright infringement for the practices we all generally think should be legal (format shifting, time shifting, etc) ... even in instances where individuals break digital locks. There is no reason to expect a different experience in Canada. Further, I am not sure how a copyright holder can identify how an individual may have format shifted through breaking a digital lock without violating that individual's privacy rights under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act ("PIPEDA"). Since copyright and telecommunications are federally regulated, not sure how CRIA or other industry associations can peek into my PC to find out what I've done without being in breach of federal law, namely PIPEDA, themselves. Again, as long as use is completely personal and does not result in the distribution of copyright material, not sure this law has any practical impact. And again, we can see a 13 year track record of who the industry associations have prosecuted (or persecuted depending on your view) to underscore that point.

All that said, I do consider myself law abiding and this proposed law bothers me for a lot of the same reasons that it bothers Mr. Geist. I am in complete agreement with his perspective and also agree that the bill is salvageable if the digital locks provisions is re-written with some balance.
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post #39 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 03:21 PM
 
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Not to give the powers that be any ideas, but if they were to invest a little time and money in flooding torrent sites with viruses, they would be even more effective at reducing priacy through P2P than any law or fines.
This idea has law suit written all over it.

@Johhny
I would also like to archive for personal use as I and many others here have been doing.

Why should the movie industry be any different from the music industry...

The US have been pushing us into this for years, what we should be saying to them is "Ok, we'll do it if you follow our lead in our gun laws"... (crazy dream I know)
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post #40 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 03:33 PM
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It's not just the US. Canada is not in compliance with WIPO treaties that we've signed so it is necessary to update our laws to comply with those treaties. I think most of us are fine with the bulk of the planned legislation. The only issue that I have is the inherent conflict between my fair dealings rights (even as they become more limited under the proposed law) and the flat out prohibition on breaking digital locks. The two elements are not consistent with each other. Resolve that conflict and by and large it's a satisfactory piece of legislation.
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post #41 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 09:47 PM
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they have never gone after anyone for personal format shifting or similar things.
I never said they have gone after anyone. Re-read my post and don't put words in my mouth. I said they're fighting to make it illegal and that is true.
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post #42 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 10:24 PM
 
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Not to give the powers that be any ideas, but if they were to invest a little time and money in flooding torrent sites with viruses, they would be even more effective at reducing priacy through P2P than any law or fines.

This idea has law suit written all over it.
It very well may, but how much could someone realistically expect to get out of them for this? It would be a gamble to sue for this, since you would have to admit in court that you broke the law with respect to copyright.

I don't know how the courts would treat it, since you definately had the intent to download/upload copyrighted material, but instead ended up with a headache. The government cannot "goad" you into committing a crime, but I don't know if corporations can. If this is not illegal, they could take the risk and do this. You would automatically open yourself up to a $5000 fine.

If the companies lost this law suit, but gained a number of convictions, as long as the settlement was significantly less than the fine, many people would be scared off downloading, or at least not complain about the viruses. It could put a serious dent in dowloading if it were successful.

I am just making an assumption here, but I would suspect most downloaders are school/university/college age kids, many using mom and dad's internet connection to download/upload. I know of many parents who pay $50+ a shot to get their kids computers cleaned after torrent viruses wreak havoc. If fines of $5000 came along with those viruses, I think that things would change much more quickly than any unenforceable law could make happen.
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post #43 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 10:25 PM
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I wasn't actually responding to your post specifically, just that your post raised the RIAA and I thought it was worth commenting on. You have no argument with me on the effort that industry organizations have put into this fight and for, arguably, little return when you consider that DRM has virtually disappeared from music.
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post #44 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-06, 11:44 PM
 
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Well they have sent guys to jail for spreading virus's, so do we really want to allow corporations that kind of power over the law? I think not.
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post #45 of 56 (permalink) Old 2010-06-07, 12:04 AM
 
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I am certainly not suggesting the gov't give them the power to do it, I'm just thinking that if these companies are really hurting that badly, it is blunt instrument that could be used to deal with the problem much more quickly than any law will. It would be the "nuclear" equivalent that would sort things out fairly quickly.

If a corporation did release a virus, who would be responsible (jailed)? Also, they could pass a few brown envelopes across tables to get the same result.

Overall, I think that this new law will be ineffective in stopping piracy, and any law which is created in the knowledge that it is unenforceable and will be broken regularly is not really the type of law we should be creating. What does it say about our laws when they are simply written on paper, rarely enforced due to the impossibility of enforcing them (specifically the digital locks aspect)?

The digital locks aspect for personal format shifting is such a private matter that it will be impossible to enforce. It creates "criminals" out of many honest people and I find it insulting that the government would do this to us to pander to the Americans (mainly). I know there are other treaty obligations, but our gov't has no problem telling the G20 where to go when it comes to other things like the bank tax.
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