Who is more monopolistic Microsoft or Apple? - Page 8 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #106 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-29, 11:29 PM
 
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Thumbs down Not to my ears

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Originally Posted by NeilN View Post
I fail to see how Apple is preventing anyone from setting up alternate distribution channels as you suggest.
From my point of view Apple is not doing anything to really help things in the world of classical arts. However, I did praise them for having the largest content currently available for the classical listener in a form where individual pieces of music can be chosen. At least it is a start in the right direction. However the formats that are allowed to be distributed in this manner suck.

Apple is a symptom of a greater problem called DRM which keeps companies from distributing higher bit rate distributions of great music. Even though they could and still maintain control of the distribution.

At least they (Sony) has allowed a shadow company on the web called DDG to distribute some of the content that the great engineers of the 1950s and 60s recorded with really good equipment and knowledge. However it is only available compressed. Some of the originals are better than any pure digital offerings today...you can hear the sigh of the violins and the breath of the woodwind players just like being at a concert.

Todays recordings are so over edited that it sounds like a cheapo computer orchestra not human beings...same goes for boom and squeak remix mp3s and AACs of classical recordings. Sorry but most digital remasters are just computer aided hacks to take out any so called fluffs that naturally occur during performance and quite often make the music better!

So essentially Apple is complicit along with Sony in killing the art of classical recording and as such deserves scorn and contempt from those who know the real deal.
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post #107 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by EricReesor View Post
Apple is a symptom of a greater problem called DRM which keeps companies from distributing higher bit rate distributions of great music. Even though they could and still maintain control of the distribution.
Wow. I can't believe how wrong you are if you're saying Apple wants DRM and low bitrate music. Apple was forced by the music companies to adopt DRM in exchange for access to their catalogs.

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Todays recordings are so over edited that it sounds like a cheapo computer orchestra not human beings...same goes for boom and squeak remix mp3s and AACs of classical recordings. Sorry but most digital remasters are just computer aided hacks to take out any so called fluffs that naturally occur during performance and quite often make the music better!

So essentially Apple is complicit along with Sony in killing the art of classical recording and as such deserves scorn and contempt from those who know the real deal.
I don't understand this either. Are you actually blaming Apple for the record companies' poor sound engineering and mixing? About the only thing an audiophile could blame Apple for is its refusal to support lossless formats like FLAC. Even then, other music players do support FLAC and I don't see record companies rushing to offer this format.
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post #108 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 04:26 PM
 
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From a different point of view.

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Wow. I can't believe how wrong you are if you're saying Apple wants DRM and low bitrate music. Apple was forced by the music companies to adopt DRM in exchange for access to their catalogs.
This was my inference. It is Sony and what is left of the "labels" that are largely to blame.
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I don't understand this either. Are you actually blaming Apple for the record companies' poor sound engineering and mixing?
What would be nice is if Apple itself got into the business of actually recording classical music. They have the talent. They could easily set up a subsidiary to distribute content in original master quality releases to those who desire the best.

Why this is not happening is purely the work of the "HATS" at the MPAA and the fud that they have spread. A 20 to 100 dollar protected DVD product with individually issued copy keys for the buyer would put the lie to all the crap that they have spread about piracy.

The classical music listener just wants a long term purchase with the ability to do what they want with their purchase, short of piracy. Companies refusing to trust the consumer because of "the snotty nosed pop pirates" has caused the collapse of the once thriving world wide classical music industry!

Apple is not to blame, but they could help lead the way back from what has become a travesty to the great artists and composers of both the past and present.
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post #109 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 04:44 PM
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Wow and I thought listening to Classical Music was supposed to relax and calm people.....
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post #110 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 06:46 PM
 
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What would be nice is if Apple itself got into the business of actually recording classical music. They have the talent. They could easily set up a subsidiary to distribute content in original master quality releases to those who desire the best.
Perhaps they have the talent to play the musical instruments as well?

In other words why don't some of the orchestras just record and sell high quality recordings? They don't need the marketing power of Apple to be able to sell these online for those that want to buy.

I suspect the performers of classical music don't want high quality recordings available as this would devalue the price of admission to a live performance.

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post #111 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 07:41 PM
 
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Then why is the industry dying!

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In other words why don't some of the orchestras just record and sell high quality recordings?
Some do. But have trouble breaking into the market because distribution of the media is controlled by a handful of companies that if not block competition then at least make the distribution of content that they cannot control very difficult if not impossible.

Consider the expense of a quality recording, mix down, and distribution and there in lies the rub for the small organization like a Symphony Orchestra that has to fight to get public funding just to exist!
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I suspect the performers of classical music don't want high quality recordings available as this would devalue the price of admission to a live performance.
Not so... most cringe at the thought of their work being distributed as aac or mp3 crap downloads and would gladly share the rights with a company (like Naxos) to have their performances made available in a superior format. Once upon a time you could even buy their dvds and cds in retail stores. But the industry has all but evaporated because of what Itunes and Ipods have done to the distribution of music. Just about every 'sumer tronic device now has a garbage ipod dock. And the DRM lock in for the AAC, WMA and mp3 crap formats. So do not tell me the Apple system of music distribution is good for the classical music industry, it is helping kill it.
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post #112 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 08:35 PM
 
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Perhaps the only thing stopping high quality recordings from being available for purchase is the reality that a market for it simply doesn't exist.

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post #113 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 09:46 PM
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^^^^
Or perhaps so many simply don't know good music when they hear it and simply want background noise. Also, the music industry does control what gets released. A few years ago, Sheryl Crow was interviewed on 60 Minutes. She is capable of a wide range of music, but the record company told her what to sing and she wasn't allowed to do what she wanted. Another example is Liona Boyd. She was with CBS on their "Masterworks" label. Sony bought CBS and tried telling her what she could and couldn't record. Fortunately, by then she was strong enough to resist them. Perhaps the reason the "market for it simply doesn't exist" is because the recording companies made sure it didn't. When I grew up back in the '60s and well into the '70s and '80s, there was a wide variety of music and radio stations to play it. Now, there's very little choice and much of it is garbage. You have to get away from the mainstream sources to find quality music these days.
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post #114 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 09:49 PM
 
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I'm pretty sure I could record myself singing and sell it on the Internet without needing the blessing of the recording industry.

I'm pretty sure there isn't a market for me singing either - low or high quality.

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post #115 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-30, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by EricReesor View Post
Some do. But have trouble breaking into the market because distribution of the media is controlled by a handful of companies that if not block competition then at least make the distribution of content that they cannot control very difficult if not impossible.
Sorry, I'm not buying this. The Internet allows *anyone* to distribute and get paid for their work far more easily than any point in the past. Forget labels, forget buyers from chain stores, forget having to pay for and manage inventory. Artists can record whatever they want and submit to iTunes (or Amazon, or eMusic, or...) for less than fifty bucks (if they need help). Or they can bypass these "handful of companies" and do the distribution independently like this guy http://danielzott.com/

Also, what DRM lock in are you referring to? Not sure if you have the accurate facts when you're referring to AAC and MP3.
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post #116 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-31, 07:18 PM
 
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More to it than just recording

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The Internet allows *anyone* to distribute and get paid for their work far more easily than any point in the past.
And find the time and money to do all the promotion necessary? When you spend most of your time preparing yourself to perform...not a good idea.
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Forget labels, forget buyers from chain stores, forget having to pay for and manage inventory.
I agree with the chain store part of the equation, but why not have local music stores burn disks on demand and not carry expensive inventory? The only reason this has not happened is the jerks at the MPAA have prevented it because they would lose their hold on the industry if music distribution where to catch up with todays technology.
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Artists can record whatever they want and submit to iTunes (or Amazon, or eMusic, or...) for less than fifty bucks (if they need help). Or they can bypass these "handful of companies" and do the distribution independently
Classical artists who have tried this route have failed because the target demographic of Itunes is the half deaf background music listener that wants to drive down the road in a Honda with a 2000 watt subwoofer hooked into an Ipod impressing the chicks...not exactly what a concert hall recording requires of the listener.

Even Microsoft tried to get in the action and failed with their Zune and non existent music distribution system using their proprietary audio formats...they are still smarting from that series of blunders! But you will notice that they have teamed up with Ford to create an auto music system based on their failed products and formats.

Also notice that home stereo equipment is getting more and more locked down against the analogue hole which the MPAA /RIAA is getting really anxious to eliminate. So the music consumer is getting fewer and fewer choices in regards to how they listen or back up copy their music.
Quote:
Also, what DRM lock in are you referring to? Not sure if you have the accurate facts when you're referring to AAC and MP3.
So the classical artist just needs to go out buy a mac, and record a midi mix down with "Garage Band" artificial drums and strings and make millions....At least then the format will be correct for an Itunes hit.

In the real world of recording a performer needs to go out and spend 5-6 grand on studio mics and another 4-5 grand the right recording equipment. Then record in a hall with great acoustics, do the performance tours necessary to promote the recording and then consider spending the money to release their work. But where, on Itunes?...not a great way to succeed in the business of recording without major backing!

Apple claims to be a door for artists but does nothing to promote great art. And the default format for the Ipod and Itunes though perhaps not locked down might as well be.

I am sure that a 10 year old tone deaf kid using Garage Band and a "Guitar Hero" has a greater chance of financial success in the music industry today than an up and coming great violinist or other classically trained instrumental soloist! Because of the RIAA/MPAA and the Ipod fad.
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post #117 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-31, 08:01 PM
 
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Classical artists who have tried this route have failed because the target demographic of Itunes is the half deaf background music listener that wants to drive down the road in a Honda with a 2000 watt subwoofer hooked into an Ipod impressing the chicks...not exactly what a concert hall recording requires of the listener.
You blame Apple for blocking this type of activity then say artists fail because iTunes demographic doesn't support them.

If the artists own market will not support them, or the company that is helping the artist to succeed, then the problem is not "the system" but the non-buying fans.

Honestly, promotion is the easiest part of the equation if you have a product your market wants. A quick search of Google, and I found several classical music forums that I would assume are filled with people who are interested in classical music. How hard would it be to sell to people who already want to buy your product?

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post #118 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-31, 09:21 PM
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@EricReesor: You're moving the goalposts. First you claimed that a few companies controlled media distribution which is patently not true and attempted to portray some strange tie in between DRM and Macintosh/Garage Band. Now it seems your main beef is that Apple doesn't do enough to promote the music you like. Got news for you: the "tone deaf kid" who's playing pop/rock *always* had a better chance of financial success than the classical musician - it has nothing to do with the RIAA/iPod. Heck, I'd wager that pop music has been outselling classical music since early in the last century.

Not sure how old you are and if you remember the "bad old days" before HMV superstores arrived in Canada. Back then, the only way to properly listen to new classical recordings was to find a store specializing in that type of music (not found in malls) or to head downtown and visit the chain headquarters. Nowadays, it's a cinch to keep track of what's happening in that genre by visiting websites/forums, sampling different tracks, and buying what you want without leaving your house.

Bottom line: it's up to the artist/label to drum up interest in recordings (as it always was), not the store (iTunes). I submit that iTunes has actually lowered the barriers to entry for the reasons I stated in my last post.
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post #119 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-31, 10:18 PM
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If the artists own market will not support them
Try and find a place to buy quality music. Try and find a music store where they don't drive you out with the "music". How can the market support them, if it's so difficult to reach that market. Years ago, there were many independent recording studios. But they've pretty much disappeared, often bought up by the majors. Take a look at many of the great artists from years ago. Most of them started with some small label and then, after they established themselves, were picked up by the major recording companies. How does a newcomer get started, when the industry is controlled by a few companies?
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post #120 of 127 (permalink) Old 2010-05-31, 10:24 PM
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"bad old days"
Back then, there were a lot more record stores. I used to frequent "Peter's Platters" in Oakville, but there were many other places in town to buy. If you wanted an excellent selection, the place to go was Sam the Record Man on Yonge St. in Toronto. If he didn't have it or couldn't get it, it probably didn't exist. There was also A&As, next door to Sam's and a lot of independents, along with department stores etc. When I was a very young kid, it was even possible to go into a booth at the record store and listen to what you might buy.
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