HT but not PC?? - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-19, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Thornhill, Rogers, SA3250, Sanyo PLV-Z4, Carada 102", Panny RP56 DVD, HKAVR525, Klipsch, MX700
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HT but not PC??

The manual on my Toshiba 57" says this:
The DVI/HDCP input on your TV is designed to accept HDCP program material in digital form from EIA/CEA 861 compliant consumer electronic devices such as a set-top box or DVD player. The DVI/HDCP input is designed for best performance with 1080i high-definition video signals. The DVI-HDCP input signal will also accept and display 480p and 480i picture signals. Note: this TV is not intended for connection to and should not be used with a PC (personal computer)

I dont get it! is that the whole point of HTPC, ie to connect a PC to a HD display ?? Is it safe to ignore this warning? I would only use it occasionally ( eg once a month) ; not for routine use.

If yes, can I simultaneously connect
-the DVI video port on the PC to the TV and, at the same time,
-the analog video port on the PC to the computer monitor?

Many thanks
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-19, 05:52 PM
57
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You do not state the model number of your TV, but at 57" it may be a CRT-based RPTV and therefore could be a candidate for burn in. If it's not a CRT, then this section may simply be left over from a CRT. Also, many manufacturers simply wish to protect themselves from any legal action, so they put in these "weasel paragraphs".

The signals from PCs may also not be the same as from TV equipment, therefore there could be potential damage to circuits, although I don't recall reading about anyone damaging their TV simply by connecting a PC to it. The paragraph is there for their protection, more than for yours.

Whether you can do a simultaneous connection will depend on the capabilities of the PC's hardware/software. I suggest you read:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=54306

And provide the appropriate detailed information on the PC and TV there.

57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-19, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Yes, sorry is as CRT, rear protection, Toshiba 57HDX82. It was the first generation DVI.

Why I am attempting to is this:

a) normal viewing on the Toshiba is via component inputs
b) once is blue moon I would use the DVI input to display pics off the computer ( via PC's video card DVI out)
c) the PC would aldo be connected, of that same video card, via the video card's VGA port, to a small monitor. Card is not yet purchased.

Doable?

The intent though is not to smell smoke!
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-19, 07:26 PM
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The warning is there largely to prevent the flood of support issues when people try to connect there computers and find that the TV doesn't recognize the resolution, has too much overscan, flicker with an interlaced resolution, etc.

Generally speaking any remotely recent video card should work. Most of the drivers now have native support for "standard" HDTV resolutions.

Your best bet is to try send it a 1920x1080i resolution. I would suggest controlling the HTPC using VNC or some other remote desktop solution and keeping it in single monitor mode. Dual mode has always been a problem with HTPCs.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-19, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvincent
Your best bet is to try send it a 1920x1080i resolution. I would suggest controlling the HTPC using VNC or some other remote desktop solution and keeping it in single monitor mode. Dual mode has always been a problem with HTPCs.
I second all of that...

As a note, do not expect the Windows desktop to look very nice. A friend of mine has a CRT-RPTV and used the DVI on his to connect his HTPC and although the 10 foot interface of MCE looked great, the Windows Desktop was blurry. This is just a fact of life when using a TV CRT of any kind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin G
The intent though is not to smell smoke!
Very unlikely. As jvincent stated, any vid card even 3 years old (ATI X1xxx series or GF 6xxx) will output properly from a "will not wreck my CRT" perspective.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-19, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the commetns on this.

My use of an HTPC in this particular set up is not the norm, ie its for a 'secondary' room, the PC is older ( ie P3 with 1 GB ram, Win XP SP2) and would be used as follows:

-NORMAL Listening Mode - Big screen is off. PC is there just to serve up local music, or Rogers digital music (with IPG viewable from pc monitor) . Resoultion not a factor.
-NORMAL Viewing Mode - PC is off and out of the equation.
-OCCASIONAL Viewing mode - PC is to serve up pictures to the big screen. PC monitor is off. No burn-in issue, and no real Windows desktop concerns - only a slide show would be running. 480p resolution or higher would be acceptable.

Given the above I think I'm safe for a circuitry point of view and I would have the desired functionality. But I would have two display devices physically connected to the PC video card. So I guess my question is , how does one 'select' one over the other ( ie VGA port vs DVI port...or are they both active all the time?..or does it depend on the card I purchase The PC has an AGP slot ( but its version 1.0, with bus speed ..66 or 133 MHz) but I have free PCI slots and its likely a safer bet to go for a PCI card...l I am hopeful there are cards out there, given my needs are for modest slide shows.

Failing all this, plan B is to drop the DVI option, and try to find a video capture card that has video output playback capability to a composite RCA out jack.

Last edited by Marvin G; 2008-01-19 at 10:47 PM.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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OK, doing some more digging.

It would appear that they are many cheap PCI 128MB video cards (based on ATI Radeon 9000/9250 or Nvidia FX 5200/5500/6200 processing), from manufacuturers not too familiar to me ( EVGA, GeCube, DiabloTek) that have VGA plus DVI plus S-Video outs. So that should give me enough VIDEO OUT options use my LCD monitor when needed for PC functions and use the large CRT whne needed to play my modest photo slide shows. So I figure I'll choose one of those cards, plus a video capture card (for Video IN functions).

- Still curious how, on the PC, one 'switches' between the outputs when there are are multiple connections ( ag DVI and VGA and S-Video) on the video card.

- Is one of RADEON or Nvidia a safer bet, especially for older PC's?

- Any cautions re EVGA vs GeCube vs DiabloTek


Tx
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 11:44 AM
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A word of caution on the S-video out from the card, it will look bad. I have yet to see one that looks acceptable.

As far as PCI video cards go, I've never used one, but of the brands you mention EVGA is the only name I recognize.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 04:47 PM
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I use an ATI Radeon 9600 AGP (back then, the PCI version was also available) video card which has a VGA, DVI and S-Video outputs. I use the VGA for the LCD Monitor and the DVI port for the TV through an ATI DVI to HDTV component video adapter (dongle). My TV is a Sony CRT (KV-34XBR800) with a DVI input but the ATI software does not recognize this TV as a valid DVI display device. That is why I have to use the ATI component video dongle. I normally have the LCD Monitor set as the primary display and the TV set to clone mode. The LCD Monitor is set to its native resolution (1680 x 1050). The ATI software will then try to use the highest resolution available for the clone display and scale the picture down to avoid the need for panning mode. In my case, it will select the 1920x1080 (1080i) resolution resulting in a hard to read flickering picture surrounded by black bars. So in the ATI settings, I enable panning mode, and disabled the 1080i (in the component video section). This forces the ATI software to use the 720p resolution in panning mode for the TV. However, when you play a video supporting the overlay feature, the TV displays the video using the overlay feature in full screen without panning but you don't see the video control in overlay mode. When I want full video control on the TV, then I set the TV as the primary monitor using the 720p resolution (without panning).

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 04:56 PM
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DVI from a computer works just fine on my Toshiba 42HDX82. I haven't seen a resolution that it didn't work with (I tried everything I could throw at it). Only concern was, there is lots of overscan, and everything except 1920x1080i is converted to 540p resolution. My graphics card (ATI) permits a special mode whereby it sends 1920x1080i (or 1280x720p) but shrinks the resolution by adding black to the sides, so I was able to get it to around ~1700x990 before it would "fit" good.

In short, it does seem to work... but with some limitations.

I didn't find it particularly readable at any resolution. The 1920x1080i type modes were too small to read, and everything else being converted to 540p was blurry. 720 p input was the best for size, but was very fuzzy. I could not find a mode that matched the 540p properly. 640x480 worked fine, but may as well use s-video for this.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Reassuring that the Toshiba recongizes the DVI out from the PC...but as you say, with limitations.

Let me ask this. The manual for my Toshiba refers to DVI-D. I expect yours does as well. But some the cards I am looking at describe thier DVI outputs as DVI-I. What does your video card have?

Whats the deal in general between DVI-I vs DVI-D ? Do any PCI video cards have DVI-D?
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
640x480 worked fine, but may as well use s-video for this.
Is this the same as a 480p display... or 480i??

When it is said that S-Video supports up to 480...does that mean it can carry a 480p signal?
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
DVI from a computer works just fine on my Toshiba
I see even the DVI connections alone are going to be fun with so many different connectors.

Please see pic here: http://ca.geocities.com/[email protected]/docs/dvi.pdf

I am trying to plan to connect the Toshiba to a video card (same type of connector as on the SA Boxes). I happen to already have a spare cable (DVI to HDMI), so can I get away with just buying the adaptor shown?...or all ALL pins needed?

If buying a new cable is best I'll do that....but do I want a DVI-I cable or a DVD-D cable? I assume I want DVI-D as thats what the Toshiba refers to.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 07:11 PM
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I have my HTPC connected to an even older TV - a Toshiba 50H81 that doesn't even have DVI - I use component out of a 7600GS video card. As others have mentioned the windows desktop looks very blurry but the MCE UI looks fine, as does the one game that I play - Guitar Hero III.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 2008-01-20, 07:29 PM
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DVI-D is only carries the digital signals.

DVI-I is digital + analog, i.e. it has all of the signals of DVI-D plus the analog ones.
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