Vista degrades HD content - on purpose! - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-01-31, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugh
Well, I'm not sure how much of DRM you can blame on MS since its really the studios dictating all of that.
Just Google "Microsoft Palladium" and you'll see that it was Microsoft that pitched all this to big entertainment years ago - the idea was to turn the home computer into a locked-down big entertainment terminal. You'll see in the Google results that lots of analysts were saying back in 2002 that this kind of stuff was likely to happen. Here it is 5 years later and surprise... NOT.



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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-01-31, 02:05 PM
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Aren't those the very same restrictions imposed on playback under XP? What exactly is Vista specific?
BTW, component connection can be used and there is no HDCP requirement on the display side in this case.
diogen,

One of us is mistaken, and it likely is me, so if you are certain about the above statement I will take your word for it.

However, I have been led to believe (gradually over the span of a couple of months) from different sources, that there are no current video cards in production that will output 1080p/1080i/720p or higher via component with a forced HDCP flag. The card will output 480i (or possibly 480p). Only video cards manufactured prior to July 2005 were exempt from the FCC requirement to support HDCP, and good luck finding one of those! They've all been snatched-up for this very reason, although occasionally you'll see one from an e-seller.

The difference between XP and Vista in this regard is there is no Defender routine in XP to prevent you from integrating legacy components which allow HD content to bypass content protection schemes. Thus you might be forced to buy additional hardware you did not anticipate. My PC at home has been updated piece-by-piece over the years, and I still have a couple of components that are almost a decade old. I hate to think if I upgraded to VISA that I would have to purchase a more hardware than I intended.

However, like I said however I could very well be mistaken.
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-01-31, 02:10 PM
 
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I see stampered is still beating the Anti-MS drum ....

The rules being implemented in Vista are the same as WinXP and any set top box player.

For 1080p
See I_Want_My_HDTV list

For 1080i component
Remove restriction for HDCP

For 1080p over VGA (yes 1080p over VGA)
Remove restriction for HDCP

The analog HD will be available until the OCT flag is turned on, around 2010 according to content providers. This will apply not only to HTPC but to STB as well. I suspect that as we get closer to 2010 and there are still alot of HDTV's with HDCP, this may be extended
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-01-31, 03:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99gecko
...there are no current video cards in production that will output 1080p/1080i/720p or higher via component with a forced HDCP flag.
This could be true. I have no definite argument to make a broad statement to the contrary.
But I don't think this is Vista specific. Some video cards have this limitation under XP.
My point is, what XP does on existing hardware, Vista will do as well. I could be wrong.
If you consider VGA as a form of component, your statement above is not correct, I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99gecko
Thus you might be forced to buy additional hardware you did not anticipate.
HD/BD playback is demanding, no doubt about it. But if your hardware does it today under XP, Vista will do it, too.
A garden variety video card paired with 1GHz CPU won't cut it. But a Core Duo 2GHz with a 7950-class GPU will do it. On both OS's.

Diogen.

EDIT: Aside issues related to activation, OS upgrades, etc. my understanding today is: Vista offers new "tools" to write software that can be seen as taking away "fair use" rights. This software isn't written yet. Existing software will run under Vista the same as under XP.

Last edited by diogen; 2007-01-31 at 03:11 PM.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-02-01, 03:04 AM
 
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Aren't those the very same restrictions imposed on playback under XP? What exactly is Vista specific?
Some hardware and software impose the same restrictions in WinXP. The difference with Vista is that the restrictions are built into the O/S and, I believe, non-conforming software and hardware can be disabled by the O/S. I have no problem playing HD content on WinXP at full resolution with non HDCP compliant hardware and software. I wonder if I will be able to do the same with Vista. It could just refuse to let software or hardware it doesn't like work. That's part of the DRM puzzle. Just how far will M$ and the studios go to lock down the system? We don't know yet but we do know that they both have a big bag of dirty tricks and lots of high priced lawyers to harass people they don't like. Vista, at the very least, gives them more tools to do that.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-02-01, 08:52 AM
 
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The only difference between Vista and XP is a "protected path" for digital hi-def movies. The DRM tools are built in to Vista and should provide a more consistence implementation of them

Quote:
I have no problem playing HD content on WinXP at full resolution with non HDCP compliant hardware and software
And you will under Vista also ... until they turn on the ICT flag. Then both Vista and XP analog output will be reduced to 480p.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-02-01, 10:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Want_My_HDTV
...I believe, non-conforming software and hardware can be disabled by the O/S.
...I wonder if I will be able to do the same with Vista.
...It could just refuse to let software or hardware it doesn't like work.
At this point I find this to be nothing but pure speculation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BHoward
... until they turn on the ICT flag. Then both Vista and XP analog output will be reduced to 480p.
Actually, 540p: they cut the vertical resolution in half (and have already claimed it will still be better than DVD).

Diogen.

Last edited by diogen; 2007-02-01 at 10:56 AM.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-02-01, 10:59 AM
 
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I stand corrected
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-02-01, 07:25 PM
 
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At this point I find this to be nothing but pure speculation.
It is only speculation because nobody knows if these capabilities will be used by M$ and the big $tudios. M$ has already withdrawn support for copies of WinXP when it deemed to be a pirated version, despite the fact that the purchasers thought the software was legal. Vista is even more restrictive and will likely hit more people with legally purchased copies of M$ software. I had a legal version of WinXP totally disabled by M$ after a hardware change and was forced to reinstall with a different key.

The capabilities are in Vista to do all those things and to prevent non-conforming hardware and software from working. M$ and the big $tudios want to lock out any and all competition, create a monopoly in the multimedia market and make consumers pay much more for listening to music or watching movies. Lawsuits have already been brought against popular, legal open source software and the people that develop it. It is also illegal to make or sell non HDCP compliant hardware in some countries, such as the US. Will they go so far as to actually disable hardware and software they don't like on home computers? I don't doubt it will happen. M$ has already used dirty tricks to make competing software less usable or unusable. I doubt that will stop, seeing as the US antitrust laws have been shown to be impotent where M$ is concerned. How many people will be affected by heavy handed actions by the studios such as happened with my copy of WinXP. How many more catastrophies such as the Sony root kit will take place? I am not waiting around to find out.

Let's face it, Vista and DRM are designed to suck money from its owners in as many ways as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if M$ is planning on increasing its cash reserves to much more that 50$billion with its new O/S and royalties from DRM media sales. Just say no to Vista and DRM.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-02-01, 07:45 PM
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I am trying to remember the last time I read three paragraphs full of M$'s. You do make some interesting points however your constant use of M$ is distracting and kind of childish.
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 2007-02-01, 07:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Want_My_HDTV
It is only speculation because nobody knows if these capabilities will be used by M$ and the big $tudios.
Thank you for confirming that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Want_My_HDTV
I am not waiting around to find out.
Have a nice trip.

Diogen.
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