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TTC Subway Cellular Connectivity

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11K views 113 replies 13 participants last post by  Exid0r 
#1 ·
BAI Canada & TTC Deliver Complete Subway Cellular Connectivity: Freedom Mobile Customers First To Benefit

BAI Canada has completed its installation of cellular connectivity infrastructure that meets the highest industry standards in all subway platforms and is continuing its work to expand cellular service to subway tunnels.

Just in time for the busy holiday season, Freedom Mobile customers who ride the TTC are now able to use their cellular LTE services to talk, text, tweet and post at all 75 TTC subway stations, including the Line 1 extension's six brand new stations and nine kilometres of underground tunnel when it opens to the public this Sunday, December 17. This adds to the cellular connectivity already available in the downtown loop of the TTC's Line 1 between Bloor/Yonge station and King station.

Increased connectivity will help power Toronto's innovation and benefit TTC passengers, businesses and the community at large. While the world-class infrastructure is in place for all cellular carriers to join whenever they choose to, Freedom Mobile was the first to do so in 2015 and continues to be the only mobile carrier to provide wireless service in Toronto subway stations.

BAI remains on schedule to complete the installation of cellular connectivity in the downtown loop tunnel from Bloor/Yonge all the way down to Union and back up to St. George station by the end of summer 2018.
 
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#35 ·
@nfitz

One thing to bear in mind is there already is roaming among the big carriers. It's called "extended coverage" and has been around since 2015. I'm on Rogers and I can roam on another carrier in the few areas where Rogers doesn't have coverage. I experienced that, when I was in Bancroft a few years ago. I believe the same applies to Bell & Telus. Perhaps someone on those companies can confirm. Also, Freedom/Videotron already has an agreement in place, which Rogers will inherit from BAI. I have no idea what will happen with other, smaller carriers from other regions.
 
#36 ·
If Bell and Telus refused to make a deal with BAI as an anti-competitive measure, then it worked. They've just driven one more competitor out the Canadian market. If the CRTC continues to let them get away with such activities without ramifications then nothing will stop them from doing more to eliminate competition. It will also stop anyone else from even trying to compete in the Canadian market and probably already has. Meanwhile Canadians will continue pay higher prices for inferior wireless services.
 
#38 ·
BAI might not have sold cellular services directly to consumers but they could be seen as a competitor for this contract and similar contracts. For example, the federal government provides billions of dollars in federal grants to provide communications infrastructure to remote communities. If companies like BAI could outcompete incumbent providers for those funds, it could be a huge income loss.
 
#39 ·
For example, the federal government provides billions of dollars in federal grants to provide communications infrastructure to remote communities. If companies like BAI could outcompete incumbent providers for those funds, it could be a huge income loss.
The departure of BAI doesn't help - but they weren't getting paid to install the network in the subway.

BAI were paying the TTC $25 million for the privilege of installing the system. Rogers also made a bid, but it didn't come close.

I'm not sure why the Rogers and Bell roaming didn't cross-over to Shaw/Freedom, even if they didn't sign on directly. An attempt to damage Shaw/Freedom.

I'm not aware of Videotron providing service in the TTC - but I've certainly not tried. Presumably it will as part of this merger ... but perhaps they already had a roaming deal with Freedom.
 
#40 ·
It didn't really matter if BAI was being paid or they were paying. I suspect that paying for the privilege was a big factor in their exit. It depended on being paid by other companies to turn a profit. In not doing so, incumbent cellular providers may have made the system unprofitable. Incumbents expect to be paid huge sums to install infrastructure and would see BAI's business model as a threat, especially if they extended that business model to other infrastructure. BAI leaving the market means that taxpayers will end up subsidizing the creation of infrastructure at inflated prices instead of the free enterprise marketplace determining costs. It also means that third parties are unlikely to extend infrastructure to unserved and underserved areas. Canadians are losing in at least two ways. This problem is not unique to Canada. Similar things are happening in the US as the big wireless providers are using any means possible to prevent competition while using covert methods to hide their actions.
 
#42 ·
It looks like the same old money-go-round again. The big companies want all the profits for themselves, won't invest in shared networks or pay a competitor for access. It's yet another argument for turning network infrastructure into a utility, running fibre to every business and residence in Canada and making telecoms pay for its use. We did it with transportation and power. Now its time to do it with communications. Privatization of essential services only fills the bank accounts of the rich and powerful while leaving large parts of the country underserved.
 
#43 ·
Maybe the time to take one Mayoral candidate's position seriously and require any Telecom providers to the city to provide public service on the TTC subway!

Though now with Rogers coming on board (by buying the company with the TTC contract to provide to the other Telecoms), I can't see the other big companies to suffer the inevitable Rogers campaign about being the only one to provide service in all the TTC stations and the tunnels in the downtown loop.
 
#45 ·
Delivering full TTC wireless coverage for everyone, regardless of carrier - About Rogers .

Toronto transit riders believe all wireless customers, regardless of their carrier, should be able to call, text, and surf on a reliable, modern network – no matter where they are on the subway system. We agree. 

That’s why in April Rogers acquired BAI Canada to help make it happen. Since 2012, the company held the rights to build and operate the mobile network in the subway, but today coverage only extends to station platforms, concourses and roughly 25% of the tunnels. Although all riders with a mobile device can access 9-1-1 in these limited areas, the legacy network cannot handle customer traffic from the three major carriers. 

We signed a deal to modernize and expand the network across the entire subway system to deliver full wireless coverage, for everyone. Regardless of their carrier. 

This is a goal we share with Torontonians, the TTC, and Canada’s Minister of Innovation, Science, and Industry Hon. François-Philippe Champagne. Last month, we proposed to the Minister a framework to reach agreements with all carriers in a timely manner to join the network under commercially reasonable terms. We’re confident of reaching deals with all carriers, but if we can’t, we’ve proposed a dispute resolution process to help us get there.

At the end of the day, bringing connectivity to all subway riders – for their safety, ease, and comfort – is what this is all about.
 
#46 ·
#47 ·
#51 ·
My understanding is that Bell/Telus customers are being denied service because they refuse to deal with other carriers. It's a classic anti-competitive move. Financial losses due to similar actions by incumbent carriers may have forced BAI to sell to Rogers. If Rogers finds finds the TTC service to be unprofitable without agreements with other carriers, they may withdraw as well.
 
#61 ·
And part of the reason I use Freedom.

Fido has it now too; presumably when Rogers got it. I'm surprised I've seen no mention in the media.

I'm puzzled why Bell and Telus are choosing this mountain to die on. They've both had years, and refused to deal with BAI.

And then suddenly they are making a federal case about it, when Rogers bought BAI?

I'm surprised that CRTC hasn't simply told them where to go.
 
#55 ·
heard on the news this morning that Rogers is now providing 5G service to it's customers on the downtown loop.
It's splashed all over the main page on their website as well. It's too bad I can't access parts of their website to manage my account or get an honest price for their special offers. It seems like Rogers' website is not working properly about half the time I try to do something on it. It has been that way for years.
 
#58 ·
I've had it fail to work with several browsers. I was trying to compare offers for existing customers. That resulted in an messages saying the information is not available. I've often seen another saying they had a problem at their end. It was almost impossible to make a comparison as it's now difficult or impossible to see some prices or add extra theme packs and channels to offers on the web site. It just says they can be added after signing up. The list of theme packs seems to be missing a lot of available packages as well so they cannot be compared to other services on content and price.
 
#59 ·
I also use Firefox and have rarely seen it fail. However, somethings about it are annoying. I have also experienced one browser having problems on a site, but others are fine. For example, if I have a Teams call, I have to use Edge.
 
#60 ·
I took the subway yesterday from Kipling to Sherbourne. There was 5G most of the way, though there were some places, such as Royal York, where there was no signal. For the most part I just relied on the 5G indicator, but occasionally tried speedtest. I would expect in some stations, such as Kipling and Islington, the signal was coming in from outside, as the subway is above ground near them.
 
#62 ·
Fido is owned by Rogers so no surprise there. Freedom was owned by Shaw, which was purchased by Rogers, but had to be sold to Quebecor for regulatory reasons. I suspect that as a result of that sale and existing agreements between Rogers and Shaw, Freedom has roaming rights on Rogers' network.
 
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