New CRTC wireless code effective Dec. 2, 2013 - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #16 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 12:19 PM
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New CRTC Rules in Place

http://www.thestar.com/business/2013...f_conduct.html

Quote:
The CRTC said that, among other things, individual and small business consumers will be able to:
  • Terminate their wireless contracts after two years without cancellation fees, even if they have signed on for a longer term
  • Have their cellphones unlocked after 90 days, or immediately if they paid for the device in full
  • Return their cellphones within 15 days and specific usage limits, if they are unhappy with their service
  • Accept or decline changes to the key terms of a fixed-term contract and receive a contract that is easy to read and understand.
And I think this is the key..

Quote:
“So, in effect, it’s equivalent to those asking for a ban of three-year contracts without us actually banning three-year contracts, because what we’re saying is the contract’s amortization period can only be for a maximum period of 24 months.”
So the phone is paid off by 24 months. It means we'll pay more up front for the latest and greatest phones. But that's what we want in an age where phones are old after a couple of years.

Last edited by Dr.Dave; 2013-06-03 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Moved to existing thread
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post #17 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 12:28 PM
 
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do theses rules apply to contracts already in place?
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post #18 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesK View Post
There should be mandatory separation of subsidy and service costs on the bill. The bill should also state when the subsidy has been paid and removed when paid in full. As it is, people get the subsidy included rate then keep on paying it long after the phone has been paid for.
That's the best suggestion! They should have to specifically disclose the subsidy amount and not be allowed to bundle it in the service rate.
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post #19 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 01:06 PM
 
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i dont know if i quite get this. after my device is paid off after 24 mo. my bill should go down by whatever the monthly subsidy amount is (15 or 20 $) ??? is this close?
so if i buy a GS4 on a new 2 year term for $200 and lets say $20/mo is taken off my "tab" until amortization. that s 680 bucks and call it even. then my bill should reduce by 20 dollars? since the subsidy is paid off?
sounds great but yeah right
there is a byod deal where you receive 10% off which is similar
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post #20 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 01:10 PM
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Have their cellphones unlocked after 90 days, or immediately if they paid for the device in full
Paid in full phones should not be locked at all. Locks should only be allowed on subsidized phones. I don't have a problem with locks on phones while they're still on subsidy.

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post #21 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 01:18 PM
 
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and to add to that , when your device subsidy is paid off they should have to offer the unlock in an upfront manner. I know some people dont know u can unlock a phone and think they are stuck with that provider.
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post #22 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 01:38 PM
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Locks should only be allowed on subsidized phones. I don't have a problem with locks on phones while they're still on subsidy.
I beg to differ.

If I want to unlock my phone and take it elsewhere, I'm on the hook for the remainder of the subsidy anyway, so why should that matter to the provider? It's not like I can just walk with "their phone".

I want to get a couple of our iPhones unlocked because we vacation in the US for extended periods of time, and I refuse to pay Rogers' silly roaming fees for voice, text and data. I want to be able to get a SIM card with a provider there for 30 days, pop it into my phone, and actually pay a fair and reasonable price. Meanwhile, if I'm still paying my monthly fee to Rogers, it's no skin off their back.
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post #23 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 02:18 PM
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It matters because sometimes providers sell phones at or below cost, with the hope of recouping the loss in the monthly fees. If you can just pay off the below cost device and go to a different provider, they can't make that money back.

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post #24 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 02:36 PM
 
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@Torontocollin

There is voice and data contract and there is phone subsidy.

If your phone subsidy is for 3 years and you decide to cancel after 2 years than there is no cancelation fee. But you have to pay for the last year of the phone subsidy.

Quote:
Commission considers it appropriate to limit the maximum number of months over which the early cancellation fee must be reduced to 24 months, so that Canadians will be able to cancel a contract at no cost to them after two years or less. The Commission considers that this will minimize the costs of switching WSPs for consumers, benefit consumers, and ultimately result in a more dynamic marketplace.

In all cases, after two years, customers will be able to decide whether or not to continue the relationship with their current WSP or to choose a competitor’s service without any early cancellation fees or other burden.
This new policy applies to customers who have entered into terms of any length, including those longer than the aforementioned two-year period. While it’s not certain yet how carriers will deal with the disparity of allowing contract holders to leave without penalty before their terms have expired, the CRTC has set about enforcing a maximum early cancellation fee that cannot exceed the amount of the phone subsidy itself, and must be payable over a two-year period. That means that after two years, if the phone balance hasn’t been paid off, customers will need to merely pay off the remaining amount of the device and be able to leave the provider without penalty.

In Quebec there are no contracts at all for the past couple of years. Only phone subsidies that are 2 or 3 years. You can cancel at anytime but you have to pay the remaining phone subsidy so it is better than what the CRTC is implementing now.

In the rest of Canada,Rogers,Telus and until recently Bell were charging early cancelation fees along with the phone subsidies. Now if you stick with them for at least 2 years no cancelation fees. Just pay the last year of the phone subsidy.
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post #25 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 02:40 PM
 
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I don't see this entirely as a win for consumers. As a result of this, I predict either much higher upfront costs for devices or increased monthly service fees. One of the largest costs to carriers is device subsidies, so decreasing the amount of time they're allowed to recoup that subsidy will likely force them to increase rates.

This will also have a significant impact on Wind as well. They currently promise to clear your tab after 36 months, they will now be forced to do that in 24 months. With their lacklustre ARPU, and their current financial troubles, these new rules certainly aren't going to help.

Also, I'm curious as to whether all carriers have to implement all these rules by December 2? Implementing those roaming caps within such a short time frame would likely be a huge challenge for the carriers and they'll likely use that as an excuse to increase costs as well.
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post #26 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 02:44 PM
 
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@rogue17

I don't think you read it correctly. With the new rules, even if you enter into a 3 year agreement and you want to leave after 25 months, there will be no ECF.

This was done intentionally so the CRTC can say to the Big 3, "What are you talking about? We didn't ban 3 year contracts...wink wink". While at the same time, the CRTC can say to consumers, "Look what we did!! We gave you exactly what you asked for!"
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post #27 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue17 View Post
There is voice and data contract and there is phone subsidy.

If your phone subsidy is for 3 years and you decide to cancel after 2 years than there is no cancelation fee. But you have to pay for the last year of the phone subsidy.
From the Toronto Star article above, a contract's amortization period can now only be 24 months. That means that the phone subsidy must be split over the first two years and be entirely paid off by the end of those two years. The third year is, in effect, meaningless.

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post #28 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 04:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PokerChip View Post
It's unlikely we will see a brand new smartphone offered at $99 or $159 on a two-year term. Customers will have to give closer consideration to disbursing more up front for the device, or paying more per month to pay it off (this where the monthly bill could go up).
Normally I would be the first to agree, but I'm seeing a Bell ad on this very page offering the Nexus 4 for $99.95 on a two year term. To be fair, I haven't looked at the details of that offer...I started a three-year contract last December, so not going to be in the market for a new phone another two and a half years.

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post #29 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 04:35 PM
 
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^^^^It is also not December 2nd yet.

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post #30 of 106 (permalink) Old 2013-06-03, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
I don't see this entirely as a win for consumers. As a result of this, I predict either much higher upfront costs for devices or increased monthly service fees. One of the largest costs to carriers is device subsidies, so decreasing the amount of time they're allowed to recoup that subsidy will likely force them to increase rates.
If by "win" you mean lower prices or lower cost of ownership then I agree with you 100%. Frankly, I think this will likely mean higher prices for the bulk of consumers.

However, I do think its a "win" in the sense that there will now be more transparency and hopefully reduce some consumer confusion.

Back to contracts and pricing, here is what I envision happening in the coming year. Feel free to give your own guesses!
  • Three year contracts will be gone.
  • Wireless companies will see churn increase in the next few years because most people will be on 2 year contracts instead of 3. Since churn is very costly to wireless providers, I expect two year contracts will go up in price over current two year contracts as wireless providers seek to offset the higher cost of churn. In other words, look at current two year deals and expect to pay that or more.
  • Introduction of something I'll call a 2++ contract. I envision wireless companies offering a an "option year" where the third year of a contract (and possibly 4th) would be given at 25% (or similar percentage) off the regular monthly price PROVIDED users sign up to the third year at the beginning of the contract. If you don't sign up to the 2++ contract, you don't the "deal" in subsequent years. This type of contract would reduce churn significantly because consumers would want to stay on after their contract expired in order to the get the "special" monthly price.
  • Hardware prices will go up since wireless companies will decide that they want to start making money on phones rather than simply offering them as a lost leader.

Personally, I don't see the big three offering BYOD pricing since it would expose how much they are charging for each device.



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