High gas prices are here to stay - Page 5 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #61 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-17, 01:45 PM
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That is almost exactly double what it turned out to be. Ouch.
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post #62 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 02:20 PM
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Meanwhile, a disturbing trend over the past while. Oil is at $42 US a barrel this morning, and regular gas in Edmonton is trending upwards at 92.9 cents a litre, and this is happening at all major gas stations. Of course, there is no collusion happening. This is all pure coincidence (and I say that fully tongue in cheek).

Look at the slope on crude prices since the beginning of March, and the slope on the retail price of gasoline.

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post #63 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 05:01 PM
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Yeah, people in Alberta really have a huge case for complaining about gasoline prices.

http://www.montreallisting.ca/gasprices/

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post #64 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 05:17 PM
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That's completely beside the point. Just because gasoline in Alberta is cheaper (and it SHOULD be), doesn't get oil companies off the hook when such significant discrepancies exist between crude oil prices and retail prices. I am not complaining about gas prices in Alberta relative to other places in Canada.

I understand oil contract prices for West Intermediate Crude are not the only factor influencing the price at the pump on any given morning. Refining costs are one example.
However, inventories are at an almost all-time high. They don't even know where to store it anymore. So even if one refinery in Louisiana shuts down for a week, this shouldn't affect the price we are paying today.
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post #65 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 06:16 PM
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As has been discussed often, "oil companies" make very little money (on average) from selling gasoline. They make their money on upstream operations and by selling $2 bottles of water and other high priced items at the gas station stores.

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post #66 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 06:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Look at the slope on crude prices since the beginning of March, and the slope on the retail price of gasoline.
I don't think looking at prices for one month is terribly informative nor is looking at WTI.

You also are comparing CDN $ gas prices vs U.S. Oil prices in a month where the CDN $ has sunk significantly.

To make a valid comparison, you should compare pump prices in CDN $ vs. Edmonton Oil prices in CDN $ over a longer period of time.
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post #67 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerChip View Post
Look at the slope on crude prices since the beginning of March, and the slope on the retail price of gasoline.
Quote:
I understand oil contract prices for West Intermediate Crude are not the only factor influencing the price at the pump on any given morning. Refining costs are one example.
If crude oil was the only factor, then the slopes would be the same. Since there are other factors, the slopes aren't the same.

Quote:
So even if one refinery in Louisiana shuts down for a week, this shouldn't affect the price we are paying today.
All refineries have to shut down to switch from winter to summer gasoline blends in the spring and back again in the fall. This is spring, which probably explains the uptick in gas prices in the last few days.
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post #68 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Dave View Post
All refineries have to shut down to switch from winter to summer gasoline blends in the spring and back again in the fall.
I don't believe this is correct. They may need to make certain alterations in processing and in certain additives, however, refineries typically run for at least a year, often 2-3 years whenever possible. Larger refineries, with multiple trains, can even run continuously, shutting down portions of the refinery for maintenance while other portions continue to operate (outside of catastrophic failure, obviously).

Summer gasoline costs more because the inexpensive additives that are used in the winter cannot be added in the summer, otherwise the gasoline would have too high a vapour pressure for the higher summer temperatures and cause vapour lock. Certain (light, inexpensive) additives are used in the winter to raise vapour pressure to make for easier starting in cold weather, hence lower cost gasoline.

Of course, gasoline also goes up in price in summer due to higher demand as people drive more. Production of heating oils, kerosene (for jets), diesel, and asphalt (for road construction), depending on the refinery product slate, also play into the pricing of all the various products from a refinery. More on refineries in the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_refinery

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post #69 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 08:08 PM
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^^^ Which begs an interesting question: Are they going to store that "winter gas" until next winter or re-refine it?

Can they re-refine it into "summer gas" for lack of a better description...

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post #70 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-18, 08:14 PM
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They don't have that much storage, so it's used as it's produced. They would never store it until next winter.

Much of the blending of the additives (for summer or winter) is done downstream of storage. There is no "re-refining".

Often the (off brand) gas stations end up with the "bottom of the storage tank", or "out of date" gasoline.... People may see a Shell or Esso truck pull up to the station, but the gasoline is not always the same quality, due to the different blends produced.

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post #71 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-19, 11:51 AM
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Here is a good description with some numbers of the diesel and gasoline price gap which 57 touched on.

http://www.globalpetrolprices.com/articles/4/
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post #72 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-19, 04:24 PM
 
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I have found that if one takes the NYC spot price for unleaded gasoline and converts to CDN dollars,adds federal and provincial taxes plus a few cents/litre depending on your local price wars the local price appears within a cent or per litre.


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post #73 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-20, 01:12 PM
 
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One reason for high gas prices is taxes. Go here to see the taxes

Given the NYC spot price which I calculated to be $0.59 CDN and you add the tax column the answer looks pretty close.

Link shows impressive taxes in Montreal
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post #74 of 74 (permalink) Old 2015-03-20, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Link shows impressive taxes in Montreal
67.969¢

It pays for all that outstanding infrastructure!
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