OTA NETWORK Status: GlobalTV - Page 12 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #166 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-24, 12:30 PM
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Micah, only for a few more months. It's possible the moment (ok, maybe not literally ) CHCH move to RF 15, Global applies for a channel change.

I wonder if they could apply for an unused London allotment (former CKXT, CBLN, SRC) ?

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post #167 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-24, 12:37 PM
 
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Putting a repeater in London would be the big win, IMO, but I think people have asked and they didn't have much interest.

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post #168 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-24, 01:26 PM
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I didn't mean physically placing the transmitter in London, but using an IC allotment for London. I guess they may need it to be highly directional to the west if there may be co-channel interference from the east (true for RF 7, 19, and 40) - that might be a non-starter.

AFAIK, they own the facilities in Paris (??). Wouldn't make sense to rent space on someone else's tower in London if you've already got your own down the road.

Kitchener has allotments for 17 and 29 (as Bark64 pointed out). 17 would probably a poorer choice for viewers who pull in the Cleveland stations, although 29 is also Global's Oil Springs channel.

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Last edited by El Gran Chico; 2012-04-24 at 02:46 PM. Reason: typo
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post #169 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-24, 02:20 PM
 
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I thought it was TVO's tower...

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post #170 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-24, 02:47 PM
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I believe TVO owns the tower in London and Global/Shaw owns the tower in Paris (which TVO also broadcasts from).

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post #171 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-25, 06:02 PM
 
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Global

Micah and Roger, I have direct contact with the Shaw media VP, they have told me that there thinking about a channel, prob in the London Area.. It would be perfect for 19.1 because that was allotted even in the states. If so, it has the same output as the one in Oil Springs. They should just move it. I have suggested this to them, so they know this. But I am not an expert as they are, and they need to know from the public, that it is needed. Just suggest it, and see what happens
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post #172 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-25, 06:20 PM
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By channel do you mean a new station, or just another re-transmitter of Global Toronto? I feel Global should have more stations in Ontario, especially now that they are no longer licensed as a regional station.

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post #173 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-26, 10:46 AM
 
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Just been updated about CIII-DT-6 Ottawa to change from RF 6 to RF 14.

It will just create interference:
* WUTV (Fox) Buffalo
* WPTZ (NBC) Plattsburgh

Note that CKMI-DT Montreal was originally assigned RF 51, but they chose RF 15 which was back then a spare RF for Montreal according to Industry Canada plan in december 2008. Their presence on RF 15 creates reception problems for WPTZ for Montrelaers.

RF 14 is not allocated for Ottawa area... unless there's an updated document? But I'm sure there's another frequency they can use.

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post #174 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-26, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cm3020prob View Post
RF 14 is not allocated for Ottawa area... unless there's an updated document? But I'm sure there's another frequency they can use.
Broadcasters are free to apply for channels that were not previously allotted in the DTV plan -- they have to follow all the rules in in BPR-10 to deal with any interference issues.
That's the reason you're seeing this application as a CRTC Part I application which is open for comment, because it is proposing a channel not previously allotted in IC's plan.

The bottom line is that under International agreements, neither WUTV nor WPTZ are afforded protection outside their own country.
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post #175 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-26, 12:17 PM
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The Engineering Brief in the application states that the proposed new transmitter in Ottawa will not "cause any area of possible interference to" the following stations:

Code:
Call Letters Channel Location
ON-PT-1343   14R     Barrie, ON
WUTV-PT      14R     Buffalo, NY
CBVU-PT      15R     Maniwaki, QC
and the interference caused to the following stations is within approved limits:

Code:
Call Letters Channel Location        Pop     Affected %
QC-PT-2086   14R     Sherbrooke, QC  481,900  7,861   1.6
WPTZ-PT3     14R     North Pole, NY  463,804  1,488   0.3
NY-PT-10793  14R     Syracuse, NY    942,446  3,209   0.3
It also includes interference maps, but none include Montreal.

Having said that, assuming you are using an at least somewhat directional antenna, I doubt if it will cause significant reception issues in Montreal. QC-PT-2086 in Sherbrooke would be a more significant source of problems.

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post #176 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-26, 12:30 PM
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But remember, the numbers for WPTZ and the Syracuse allotment DO NOT include anyone in Canada, since by definition anyone in Canada is outside the protected contours of an American station.
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post #177 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-26, 12:42 PM
 
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Isn't that intentional? Isn't that a "flaw" that Global is exploiting?

With the transmitter in a city, they gain simsub rights on cable. If the american RF signal is far but strong enough, placing their transmitter on a RF channel next to the american one will make it difficult to receive. OTA viewer will get angry and will have no choice but to subscribe to cable to get all his shows, including Global simsubs.

In the case of Montreal, CBS (22) is next to CBC (21), NBC (14) is next to Global (15), which I get no reception during the day. Fox (43) operates at a lower power than CBS and NBC so it can be difficult sometimes, ABC (13) is next to CTV (12) but it's at very low power, as in, forget it. But I get PBS-57 (38) and PBS-33 (32) without any problem as they have no co-adjacent channel problem.

Companies knows this, you cannot sell your house to get better RF reception or live nearest a phone CO so you can get a better DSL sync.

Is it possible to receive WUTV Buffalo or WPTZ from Ottawa? Maybe, in tropo conditions. Moving CIII-DT-6 Ottawa to RF 14 will just make it impossible for Ottawa residents, and create interference for Montreal and Toronto markets during tropo conditions.

Choosing RF 14 is most likely strategic. One of the reasons why Global Montreal chose RF 15 instead of RF 51 was because it can use the same antenna as Radio-Canada (19) and CBC (21) at the top of the Mont-Royal tower. But they could have instead pick RF 18 (PBS St-Johnsbury), or RF 16 (I see nothing of interference here), but they had to pick RF 15 somehow by strategy.

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post #178 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-26, 01:21 PM
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The Canadian broadcast spectrum is regulated for the benefit of Canada, not the US.
There was no "flaw" for Shaw to exploit -- RF protection rules are designed to protect a broadcasters investment in serving its licensed area which is limited by recent rules to 100km from the transmitter, no matter how good the propagation conditions.

Under international agreement, stations in each country are only protected within their own country. Don't forget that cross-border audiences of commercial stations do not even count towards their ratings.

From Shaw's point of view, and there were a lot of reasons to favour 14 over other options (4, 6, 9, 11, 12, and 50 are the other existing allotments in Ottawa)

4 and 6 are practically unusable for digital
9 would require an increase in power and agreement from CBC for interference to CKSH
11 needs to protect the CKWS-DT assignment in Kingston, and might not even be possible from Camp Fortune instead of Herberts Corners because of the elevation
12 needs to protect Montreal
50 would require much hihger power than 14 to cover the same area, and would need to protect a 50 allotment in Watertwon.

UHF is preferred because it is much more amenable to Mobile ATSC than VHF.

Most of all, there is some concern that IC might eventually follow the FCC and (try to) auction off the channels above 31. Investing in 14 is a prudent choice, in that case.

Also, don't forget that during the pre-transition era, 14 was in use by a high-power analog station on 14 from Herberts Corners.

While obstructing reception of American stations may be a minor consideration in channel selection, I doubt that it plays a major role compared to economics of operation, amenability to mobile ATSC reception, site location, and preference for a station in the 14 to 31 range.

Also note that reception of Mount Mansfield stations in the Ottawa area is obstructed by a mountain range about 50 miles to the west of Mount Mansfield, so any reception in this area is iffy to start with.

I agree that people in the area between Cornwall and Valleyfield might be affected, but that is not a protected reception area for either the American nor Ottawa stations.
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post #179 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-26, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cm3020prob View Post
Is it possible to receive WUTV Buffalo or WPTZ from Ottawa? Maybe, in tropo conditions. Moving CIII-DT-6 Ottawa to RF 14 will just make it impossible for Ottawa residents, and create interference for Montreal and Toronto markets during tropo conditions.
LOL. Buffalo is more than 350km from Ottawa, so receiving WUTV would require a pretty extreme tropo event! As for WPTZ, it was receivable in the most eastern parts Ottawa when the analog transmitter was on Terry Mountain in New York. The DTV transmitter was built on Mount Mansfield in Vermont and is now completely blocked by mountains and thus completely un-receivable in any part of Ottawa.

In reality central Ottawa is unable to receive any American broadcasts due to a hill south of the city. People in the far east, west and south ends can receive PBS (WNPI or WCFE) and if they are lucky, maybe CBS and FOX (on WNYF-LD). That's it.

As for causing problems for Toronto, that is also extremely unlikely since it is about 350 km away. That is just too far to cause any significant problems, especially if you consider Ottawa is in a totally different direction so their antenna will have considerably less gain.

Also, don't forget that analog channel 14 was used in Ottawa by CJMT-TV-2 up until the analog shutdown last August. If you didn't receive interference from it, you likely won't notice a problem with Global. Channel 14 is also being used in Foymount, ON by CBOT-TV-1 until July 31 (when they shut down all of their remaining network owned analog transmitters).

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post #180 of 278 (permalink) Old 2012-04-26, 05:10 PM
 
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In the US, an application for new or changed facilities must demonstrate that they cause only de minimus, defined as 0.5%, additional interference to the service areas of other stations. The minimum signal that defines the service area is different for the low VHF, high VHF, and UHF bands. For your reference, here are the service area plots for WUTV and WPTZ. Ignoring the international factor, interference outside the countour doesn't count, and viewers' complaints will fall on deaf ears at the FCC.

Note that I said additional interference. There are already locations within these service areas where interference and terrain blockage occurs. A new proposal cannot make the problem noticeably worse.

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