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OTA Station Status: Buffalo, Rochester NY

487K views 2K replies 170 participants last post by  Jorgek 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I haven't seen WNGS since about Dec 20th. It was a 100% 24/7 OTA signal for me until then. I know they were supposed to go cable around that time. Anybody know what happened to their OTA signal?
 
#2 ·
I have not been able to get a lock but still detecting their signal with a blinking light same as usual.Maybe they have adjusted their directional signal.Would be nice if they could move to a real tower and provide a stronger signal .
 
#3 ·
It's still there. Are u seeing a blip, or no signal at all over there?
My nephew & niece clued me in on xmas eve that it indeed made it to cable, CH 15 of TWC (the 67.1/WNGS-DT/ThisTV). As opposed to 67.2
I see now they have moved it to Channel 5.
Sidenote: Looks like TWC has done some processing on it, as the OTA signal is 480i (16x9) and fills up the whole screen. The Cable signal looks like 480p (4x3), doesn't fill up the whole screen horizontally, and I can see some Vertical Blanking artifacts at the top
of the screen. Stick to the OTA signal I guess.
 
#4 ·
...
Sidenote: Looks like TWC has done some processing on it, as the OTA signal is 480i (16x9) and fills up the whole screen. The Cable signal looks like 480p (4x3), doesn't fill up the whole screen horizontally, and I can see some Vertical Blanking artifacts at the top
of the screen. Stick to the OTA signal I guess.
I find your observation about the 480i widescreen turning into 480p 4:3 on TWC very interesting. I have a few questions:
Is the signal being distributed as digital on TWC?
Are you using an SA/CISCO HD box?
If yes, is the box connected to the HDTV using HDMI with the box format configured for Auto DVI?​

I ask these questions because of a problem I encountered here with Rogers Cable using an SA HD box. One channel on Rogers, DWTV, is distributed in 480i widescreen. Until the last software update in December, DWTV would display as an SD widescreen picture through the HDMI connection with the box set to Auto DVI. After the update, DWTV was letterboxed in a 480P 4:3 format. I experimented with settings and found that changing to a fixed output format (1080i or 720p) changed the conversion to full widescreen. The easy way to do the test is:
- Tune an HD channel
- press Settings twice
- Go to Set:picture Format
- go to Fixed and Select
- press Exit​
The HDMI output should be locked to 1080i or 720p depending on the format of the HD channel. Now try tuning the 480i widescreen channel. If the format change on the WNGS channel 5 signal was caused by the SA box you should see the signal in widescreen.

If you get a widescreen picture with the Fixed setting it tends to suggest that the SA box software has a logic problem in the Auto DVI software. If the HDTV can process 480i widescreen, the SA box should pass it on the HDMI output in the original format rather than perform a format conversion.

Please post your findings when you get a chance to perform the test.
 
#5 ·
Hi George...
Is the signal being distributed as digital on TWC?
Are you using an SA/CISCO HD box?
If yes, is the box connected to the HDTV using HDMI with the box format configured for Auto DVI?
-I have no idea if they have it in digital or analog. I haven't tried tuning
anything from cable using a regular TV, or my PC Tuner (to look for it via clear QAM).
I presume analog though, given where they put it on the channel map, VHF CH 5.
-SA 8300 HDC
-HDMI yes..
- Tune an HD channel
- press Settings twice
- Go to Set:picture Format
- go to Fixed and Select
- press Exit
Must be different firmware in the box vs Rogers, cause the menus seem different than what ur describing. In any event i did play around with the resolution settings on an HD signal, following this box's menus, then flip to WNGS, and nothing I did with the resolution settings made any difference with the resolution of WNGS. Still the same 4x3 480p with VBI artifacts at the top. So I don't think the box is doing anything to it.
Bottom line, the OTA signal is way better on the eyes...
 
#6 ·
Still the same 4x3 480p with VBI artifacts at the top. So I don't think the box is doing anything to it.
Bottom line, the OTA signal is way better on the eyes...
I think TWC may be using their own application on the box not the standard SA version. The 480p HDMI output is still confusing - analog or SD digital is interlaced so the conversion to progressive must be happening in the box.
Thanks for your reply majortom.
 
#13 ·
WKBW out?
yeah looks like it, must be working on it?...though I see a decent looking ATSC signal on their freq on spectrum analyser, nothing can lock it. Is up on cable. VVVVVVV back up...
 
#16 ·
This is what I believe. :confused:
TVFOOL is likely showing what will be after August 2011.
The current WNGS signal is operating on low power on a temporary authority until after Aug 2011. WNGS7RF currently causes cochannel problems for a Canadian analog 7RF in Kitchener or London that will be operating until the August cutoff date. After August 2011, WNGS will then be able to use maximum 26.9kw
 
#17 ·
The coverage map shows the signal booming
I would think it's based on info from the FCC database.
I wouldn't call "weak" booming though. "Weak" is how TVfool describes the dark blue/Pink. There is no signal strength legend in the plot. Don't lose sight that it is a VHF signal though, requiring a good VHF antenna and a quiet noise floor to receive. Neither would be that common in GTA, eh? Had a friend in Welland, ON look for it a while ago, he can barely receive it, PIX came in but like on the verge of PSIP in & out. He said it messed up his PSIP mapping, etc. He was using his CM 4221, which is not a VHF Antenna, so it's there for sure, as denoted by the light blue in Welland on the Map. Just guessing he probably could get it reliably if he was actually tuned up for VHF, which he is not. Since Welland should be a lil quieter on the noise front I'm thinkin..
Goforit, do you use a VHF Antenna?
 
#18 ·
I believe that this is still the status of their temporary ERP allowance:

We are fumbling through various FCC apps. You'd have to be a lawyer, judge and jury to make sense of what is currently being requested and what is the current reality. There are many things apps, pending, approvals, etc on FCC's table regarding WNGS apps. What I posted is showing exactly what WNGS is currently operating by. Nothing has changed since the lite up in May. They are still only at 15.5 watts ERP and they are directional to avoid conflict within their contour area. There are apps that may be approved and will be used some time in the future, but they are currently operating under a modified licence approval that was issued to Daystar to go digital prior to the transfer of ownership. WNGS has stated that nothing will change or be considered until the Canadian transition is complete.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1158213&postcount=276


Some thoughts from WNGS-TV

The post that said our hands were tied regarding reaching across the border was right. In order to go digital, we had to protect Canada from interference on our freq. Because of this we had to limit our signal.

We would love to be in Canada with our programming. Perhaps if there was enough of a demand we could get Rogers cable to carry us.

We originally were approved for the WKBW tower but the rent on that tower would have been in the hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Outrageous. Our present tower though gives us enough height to see everything to the north. As I said, that's not what determines how far we reach.

At some point in the future after we get settled, we would consider asking for permission to extend our reach. That would probably be after Canada finishes with it's digital transition.

As for our programming, we will have THIS TV on 67-2 for the foreseeable future. Daystar by contract, will be on 67-3 for some time as well. 67-1 will carry THIS TV as well but if we decide to change programming or add local content, it will be on 67-1. THIS TV on 67-2 would be un-affected by any changes on our main channel.

As the only station in WNY that is now locally owned, we would like to connect to our area (including Canada) in ways that the large corporate owners cannot. We will be up on cable and sat services in the area in the next month. (FCC requires 30 days public notice by providers before they add us) Because we just closed on the station it will take us that month or so to settle in and get everything stable.

I welcome thoughts and comments and will try to give updates as we progress.
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1155625&postcount=210
 
#20 ·
WNGS

The 15.5 kw was from their first approved application from the WKBW tower which they could not afford.The current 26.9kw is from their own new 66m tower.I see nothing to allow them to be at a reduced power.The modeling of coverage for digital VHF coverage is flawed.
 
#21 ·
Here are some quotes from WNGS's post

Did you miss the first part of the 'lowered power' explaination provided by WNGS?
In order to go digital, we had to protect Canada from interference on our freq. Because of this we had to limit our signal.
They have never used the WKBW tower.
We originally were approved for the WKBW tower but the rent on that tower would have been in the hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Outrageous.
 
#22 ·
I dont agree they are licensed and expected to be using 26.kw.They may in future apply to increase their coverage.Kitchener is not using RF 7.In my opinion their explanation was just an excuse for their poor coverage into GTA.If they use a real tower than they could improve their coverage.The old analogs 2,4,7 used to have usable signals into the GTA.My 9 element VHF yagi used to provide me with near perfect reception of old analog WKBW on 7.
 
#23 ·
Kitchener is not using RF 7
That doesn't matter, what matters is that if it's allocated to Kitchener by IC/FCC agreement, it's contour has to be protected from interference.
Licensees don't make the rules. Go back and read the closed WNGS thread from last year, I think OTACanuck linked to it. All explained in there.
 
#26 ·
Well, I'm afraid that I must remain steadfast to say that something certainly went amiss during the week when WNGS went with Timewarner. WNGS OTA signal was 100%, 24/7 to what is now a very marginal and only sometimes signal no matter how I aim my antenna. I've had no issues with any other broadcaster's reception. So, indeed you may be correct to say the OTA coveage map may not be flawed in theory, but the actual contour coverage area has been somehow compromised since the timewarner transition.
 
#27 ·
Ota canuck you are mostly west of their transmitter site,perhaps they realized their directional antenna was positioned wrong and adjusted it.Their signal is supposed to be directional North and not much power toward you.
 
#28 ·
Noticed WNYB was OFF the air last nite and this AM, plenty of signal but no packets. Later this AM it came back up with an additional Sub Channel,
So it's now 26.1 (WNYB-SD), 26.2 (WNYB-HD), 26.3 (WNYB-SD2)
coming from Jamestown, (a big hill in Arkwright, NY I think actually).
So far 26.3 appears to be geared towards Children's Programming.
A little early to conclude though being a Saturday AM.
 
#29 ·
WNYB new subchannel

Didn't see this posted anywhere - I was flipping through the channels this morning and it looks like WNYB has added another subchannel (26.3) labelled WNYBSD2. Does anyone know what this is? I've been watching for a few minutes to try to figure out what the feed is - looks like it could be some sort of christian kids channel? It is Saturday morning though - this may not be the type of programming it runs 24/7.

Even though I don't ever watch 26 - new channels can't really be a bad thing. If only the Canadian broadcasters would also start adding some interesting subchannels...

(Edit: Looks like majortom beat me to it.)
 
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