OTA Station Status: Ottawa, Watertown NY, S. Colton NY - Page 4 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #46 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-16, 02:54 PM
 
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It sucks that the only U.S. stations receivable in Ottawa are PBS stations. It defeats the main purpose of Canadians getting OTA gear (which is get U.S. networks without simsubs).

Who knows? Maybe after analog shut-off, the "white" area west of the Adirodacks that will be created by WPTZ and WFFF having their transmitters only on the Vermont side might create an incentive for new stations to open up between Watertown and Plattsburgh that could reach Ottawa.
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post #47 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-17, 05:20 PM
 
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OTA HD service

I do not feel all that great about this entire experience. Like I mentioned before, when I started this process, I had thought that I could at least get ONE HD/DTV station.

From reading all the posts in this forum, I had thought, I would be able to get four. I can only presume that the people who had success with all this, where all closer to the US border than people here in the city of Ottawa. I do not consider Stittsville in Ottawa.

I'm still hoping to find a solution, but I'm very close on giving up, and just live with the present analog channels, just as a reminder of where I'm living.

Anyone who can still provide me with any ideas, is more than welcome.

Thanks,
Marc
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post #48 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-17, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxg123
I do not consider Stittsville in Ottawa.
Tell that to Janet Stavinga (City of Ottawa Councellor for Ward 6-Goulbourn which includes Stittsville).

I am sorry about the off topic post, but it is attitudes like this that make the western provences want to separate from Canada, something that I am very sensitive to being orignally from the west coast.
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post #49 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-17, 11:17 PM
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Angry Ottawa valley a death trap for U.S. OTA DTV signals

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxg123
The Ottawa valley seems to be a death trap for any HD signal from the US. People that might have success around here, are outside the Ottawa metro area, in the southern region, which is on a higher plateau. Being on this higher plateau, might be the simple reason why people in this forum had sucess with HD.
Wow, that is really crummy, but it needs to be said and it needs to be understood by those who are thinking of trying for the U.S. DTV signals from that area.

For all your efforts mxg123, as unsatisfactory as they now are, we appreciate what you've done, and the info you've provided will help many people. It's not easy being a trailblazer.



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post #50 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-18, 03:33 AM
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Topographical Map of Ottawa/Montreal/NE New York/Vermont

I cut and pasted this map out of a free NASA satellite composite image. It gives an excellent view of geographical relief and topographical features that affect DTV reception in Canada from Vermont and NE New York stations:





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post #51 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-18, 09:46 AM
 
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Ottawa area

Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818
Tell that to Janet Stavinga (City of Ottawa Councellor for Ward 6-Goulbourn which includes Stittsville).
Politically, yes Stittsville is in Ottawa, but when it comes time to try to get all this OTA stuff working, I think it's a totally different ball of wax. I definitely do not want to get into any political topic, considering what is presently happening in the world. I prefer to leave all that stuff to the elected officials.

I appreciate very much the new post of Stampeder, showing the entire topographical area here, I think this explains very well my problem. I'm located in the deepest area near the Ottawa River. So between the US stations, and me, I have this plateau in the south, which for people in that area would not have the same problems. My mom lives in Metcalfe, and I do plan on bringing my digital receiver at her house to try this test again. I may actually have better luck there.

Metcalfe is also now considered Ottawa, politically.

Marc

Last edited by mxg123; 2006-07-18 at 09:56 AM.
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post #52 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-18, 10:00 AM
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Guys, I have lived in Ottawa since school and remember when cable first started in the late 60's. Ottawa has always been a cable town because receiving US TV signals OTA around here is not really worth the effort. Back then people used to buy all kinds of expensive antenna gear, rotors, high towers, splitters etc. They came to the conclusion that cable was the only way to go.

Originally the cable cos tried it with local banks of really high antennas which brought in two US channels somewhat reliably and other channels that were marginal. They then went with a microwave link to someplace west of Kingston on the lake which brought in reliable US channels. Today of course we get the Detroit stations and reliability isn't an issue.

So the reason I'm telling you this is that you are wasting your time and money trying to receive US HD stations reliably. What you are trying is at best a hobby so please keep that in perspective.

Last edited by otown47; 2006-07-18 at 10:06 AM.
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post #53 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-18, 10:32 AM
 
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So how high should the antenna be?

Now that I have discovered my biggest problem maybe my physical location, in the deep Ottawa valley near the Ottawa River. I guess my only choice would now be to get a higher tower for my antenna. Now the big question is how high should it be?

I'm not inrested in Rogers nor Satellite. I prefer the over the air free service, even with all these problems. I will live with whatever I get from OTA (HD or no HD).

Marc
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post #54 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-18, 10:37 AM
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Blackburn Hamlet

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxg123
I now feel I'm facing a huge roadblock, and can not move forward, unless I moved south of Ottawa. The Ottawa valley seems to be a death trap for any HD signal from the US. People that might have success around here, are outside the Ottawa metro area, in the southern region, which is on a higher plateau. Being on this higher plateau, might be the simple reason why people in this forum had sucess with HD.
I agree that the valley is the major road block that prevents us from getting signals from the US. Mountains would be the 2nd.

I'm in Blackburn Hamlet (map: http://www.blackburnhamlet.ca/Blackburnmap.jpg) and get WNPI almost all the time, and WCFE most of the time. There has to be some people within the city of Ottawa that have had success with this.

Speaking of traps, I believe I get better results when I use an FM trap. If I had braces, I could get 90.7 and other CBC stations...

-gmd

Last edited by stampeder; 2006-07-19 at 11:24 AM. Reason: Home address removed from post
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post #55 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-19, 10:16 AM
 
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elevation

Using Google earth, I was able to determine my topographical elevation. My house sits at about 192 ft above see level. My house, being at about 27ft high, and the antenna adding about another 7ft, so it would place my antenna at about 226ft.

Norwood, NY, sits at around 330ft. I just do not know how high the WNPI broadcasting tower goes. So this means a lot of flat land between these two points, and a slight elevation in between could mess things up. There is a small plateau in between which goes up to about 291. So I just do not know if all this simply means that I'm doomed in ever receiving a clear HD signal from the US.

Otown47 comments seem to indicate that I'm simply wasting my time and money, so I just do not know where to go from here now.

Again last night I was able to receive the flashing HDTV signal off and on, with a weak signal followed by an intermittent strong signal. I was able to get this for both channels 23 and 38.

Marc
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post #56 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-19, 12:53 PM
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Just for kicks I did an elevation profile from Gatineau to Norwood. I used an atmospheric correction factor of 1.3 and approxiamte end coordaintes and elevations. If you get more precise numbers (tower/house elevation above ground or MSL and lat/long) for me I can whip up another plot.

But you are all corect. That big hunk of land about 15-30km south of Gatineau is going to impact the signal.
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post #57 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-19, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxg123
Using Google earth, I was able to determine my topographical elevation. My house sits at about 192 ft above see level. My house, being at about 27ft high, and the antenna adding about another 7ft, so it would place my antenna at about 226ft.

Norwood, NY, sits at around 330ft. I just do not know how high the WNPI broadcasting tower goes. So this means a lot of flat land between these two points, and a slight elevation in between could mess things up. There is a small plateau in between which goes up to about 291. So I just do not know if all this simply means that I'm doomed in ever receiving a clear HD signal from the US.
According to w9wi.com the WNPI-DT[23] tower is 241.6m (792.7ft) above average terrain and the WNPI-TV[18] tower is 243.0m (797.2ft) above average terrain and according to Google Earth the Elevation at the tower is 1226ft.

The other factor you will have to consider is the curvature of the earth. Others on here might be able to tell you the easiest way to compensate for that.
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post #58 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-19, 03:30 PM
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Using Roger's numbers and the lat/long in the URL (plus the lat/long of Canal/Bank St.) it is telling me you would have to have your antenna at about 450 ft above sea level to clear the hills to the south. I took into account the curvature of the earth and atmospheric refraction. That is not to say you will not get a signal at a lower elevation though. You just will not get a direct signal.
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post #59 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-19, 04:42 PM
 
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antenna height

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake
Using Roger's numbers and the lat/long in the URL (plus the lat/long of Canal/Bank St.) it is telling me you would have to have your antenna at about 450 ft above sea level to clear the hills to the south. I took into account the curvature of the earth and atmospheric refraction. That is not to say you will not get a signal at a lower elevation though. You just will not get a direct signal.
Thank you Jake for all your input.

I had so much trouble in getting someone here to install my current antenna, that I just do not know who would install it for me at that height. Do you know anyone in this area that could install me at that height?

Again I do not want to spend other hard earned money, to then not get better results. Otown47 warned me about all this, and I just do not know if I should just listen to him.

Although I would love to get an antenna at a higher height, and do start to enjoy real HD signals, and no more ghosts in all the other ones, I do not want to spend hundreds of dollars (possibly thousands), to end up with the same receptions I'm presently having.
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post #60 of 2845 (permalink) Old 2006-07-20, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxg123
I do not want to spend other hard earned money, to then not get better results. Otown47 warned me about all this, and I just do not know if I should just listen to him.
I think given your specific situation it is best for you to decide if you want to have:
  1. a regular, reliable TV source
  2. a hobby, acknowledging that your particular area requires heroic measures for OTA DTV
If you want the first with OTA, you will need a really tall mast and deepest fringe gear, and even then your results may not be satisfactory. If you want the second, build the OTA system that will give you the best performance but meanwhile acknowledge that reliability and performance may or may not be satisfactory. Local HAMs would be able to point you to an antenna mast installer.

If you want the first, go with satellite or cable. I hope this helps to clear things up for you.



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