Sale of Android boxes To Obtain "Free TV" Is Now Illegal In Canada. - Page 5 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #61 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-01-07, 11:56 PM
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But if you stole half the world's annual orange production (about 23 million tons) the resulting loss would be much bigger.
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post #62 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-01-08, 08:10 AM
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I certainly agree movies and TV programs don't grow on trees; writers, directors, producers and so on deserve to be compensated for their intellectual and creative efforts. Infringement of copyright isn't morally or legally acceptable. In Canada, copyright holders have the right to sue for damages against those who use their intellectual property, without permission. Sculptor Michael Snow even sued for his moral rights, when Toronto's Eaton Centre put Xmas crap on his famed goose.

Academics and the legal community have struggled with the issues surrounding intellectual property and compensation. Most members of this forum are well aware of the struggle. Sometimes copyright gets complicated, especially in collaborative works, like music and film. Apps and other forms of software fall into that category too. Whether code, video or music, however, artists deserve to have their rights protected. Hence, victims can sue for damages.

BTW, I wouldn't accept the idea movies wouldn't be produced without commercial incentives. Humans have expressed themselves for ages, as far back as etches on limestone caves in southern France. To be human involves creation and expression, even if its just telling stories. Digital movies are simply one medium in which to express our ideas. Commercial incentives seem very powerful in our culture, which accepts capitalism, without reflection. Movies might not be watchable to most of us in a western capitalist culture, without the profit incentive, but they would exist. Moreover, it might be argued many commercial films are simply knockoffs of previous ideas, some they got for free because the narrative was first told in caves.

Of course, I personally enjoy numerous commercial films and TV, especially iterations of ancient narratives, to the point I've spent thousands on sight and sound hardware, and subscriptions to geo-blocking services, HBO, Amazon, Netflix, Showtime, to name a few. I did cut the cable cord, though.
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post #63 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-01-08, 08:44 AM
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Another way of getting free movies and boxed set, if you are not in a rush to see something specific, is to visit your local library and borrow it. There is so much content available there, along with books, that I may never run out of entertainment material.
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post #64 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-01-08, 11:13 AM
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Intellectual property deserves compensation but it isn't in the same class of property as a physical object.
That's an old school of thought that also results in light sentences for so called "white collar" crime. Stealing anything of worth can result in the same impact as stealing physical objects.

Intellectual theft is no different. Small movie makers may go bankrupt and thousands of people lose their jobs or not be able to find one. Less money is available for movie or TV show production so creativity is stifled and quality goes down. To pay for losses due to piracy, more advertising is inserted into content making the viewing experience less enjoyable. Meanwhile, the big studios just cut costs, raise their prices and continue to absorb smaller companies that cannot make a profit. The result is an entertainment oligarchy that is powerful enough to control worldwide distribution channels, fix prices and sway governments into passing punitive, anti-consumer laws. No victims?! We are all victims.
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post #65 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-01-08, 01:22 PM
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There's nothing old school about viewing property that requires conceptual effort to recognize it, intellectual property, differently from physical or tangible property, like land. Today's intellectual property lawyers still use such language.

However, I do share your concern for the differing outcomes in our copyright laws, between individual creators and corporate copyright holders. Creators often lose, becoming victims of corporations that simply buy intellectual property, for instance, without any effort to produce it, while benefiting from the ability to buy better legal advice or bully creators into selling their copyrights for the sake of making a deal. Sometimes creators even sell under pressure for too little to corporations, since economic necessity to feed and clothes themselves is immediate, while the corporation can wait for a bigger return, leaving the originator of the asset, out in the cold. More broadly, when we fail to recognize the failings of a marketplace that favours corporations over individual citizens, I agree we're all potential victims.

How fraud or embezzlement got into the discussion, isn't clear to me. I think we're heading off topic so I'm signing off too.
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post #66 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-01-10, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by NeilN View Post
1) Cable is not a basic human need. If you think the price is too high, don't buy it and don't use it as an excuse to commit copyright infringement.

2) Android boxes like this are specifically configured to access unlicensed copyrighted content. You can bet that whatever Apple puts out, it'll only be configured to access properly licensed content.
Actually, the internet is considered a basic telecommunication service like telephones.
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post #67 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-01-10, 08:42 AM
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Its only recently been deemed that.

But I think NeilN was talking about CableTV, not internet.

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post #68 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-01-10, 05:36 PM
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^^^ Yes, pretty obvious given the thread's subject and what I was replying to.

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post #69 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-02-08, 05:31 PM
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post #70 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-02-08, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I think that sooner or later it will happen in Canada. Kijiji is populated with loaded Kodi and Iptv adds.
Some of the dealers in the GTA are so bold that they are selling fully loaded android boxes and Iptv in their stores and even have the service displayed in their stores.
Then again Canada has never done much about piracy.
I am surprised that Americans are not putting any pressure on Canada as it is mostly their content being pirated.
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post #71 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-02-11, 11:38 PM
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I honestly agree that illegal streaming boxes are definitely a problem. Do you want to know how I feel about it? Well I was raised in a family that is VERY Religious, We're Catholic. So we all taught about morals, right and wrong, etc. I have never stole in my life, I have never been arrested, I've never been charged criminally, and I've never been to Jail. When I want something, I am taught to work really hard, and you can afford things you desire. After getting married and moving into my own house, I am now responsible for the TV situation. I had a choice, Go with Antenna, go with a Legal streaming service like NetFlicks, or Showmi or Crave TV, or go with a Subscription Cable TV service. NEVER Has it crossed my mind to purchase a Kodi Box with illegal addons, not even once. This has NEVER been even an option for me, its stupid, its childish, and people who use these kind of things are Selfish, and have no respect for intellectual rights. Once again, I'm a Catholic, and I work very hard at my job and I'm compensated appropriately for it, so I decided to go with a Subscription Cable TV service, well its actually a Satellite, but It's often grouped with Cable TV because it competes with other TV providers. If myself and my Wife's job situation was different, and we were poor, or not as financially sound as we are, we STILL WONT CONSIDER STEALING TV WITH A KODI BOX, We would probably downgrade our TV package or go with Antenna.

I do want to comment on others, There are people we know who make a lot of money, more than my wife and I do, and they brag about how good their kodi box is, but every time we come over to their house, its always freezing, buffering, lagging, and I always ask them if its so good, put on this channel or that channel, and guess what? they dont have those channels, and I always tell them well if you want something so bad, sometimes you have to actually PAY for it instead of steal it, and they don't seem to care but hey, I did not raise this couple and they are definately not Catholic, so I don't know if they learned about what is morally right and wrong.

Not every rich person I know steals though, there are tons of people who make good money and actually spend it on their TV service. Sometimes you have to stop and think, if you can afford something, then yeah go ahead and buy it, if you can't, then don't buy it. Sometimes its OKAY to live without Premium TV services, the world is not going to end, you don't have to steal it, but if you cant afford it, dont get it, no ones holding a gun to your head and forcing you to steal, so don't freaking do it, its stupid, and sooner or later people will call you out, if you are one of my friends, I'm gonna call you out publically untill you realize how dumb you are, and guess what? If you feel entitled to using those illegal kodi boxes then I feel entitled to calling you out and putting you on the spot too. Think of me as the "good guy"
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post #72 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-02-12, 03:56 PM
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I agree with almost everything you've said Paolo. I'm in the same situation. We pay for what we receive (Netflix, a few other niche but legit streaming services). Just remember that some of us non-catholics can be morally upright too. I also wouldn't call Kodi users stupid, they just live by a different code than you and I.

Personally, I think I am only qualified to comment on the behaviour of friends who claim to share my beliefs and values, not the whole population. For the rest, I can make it clear where I stand if people ask me to do something that is against my beliefs, but if I try to push my values on them unasked then I run the danger of being self-righteous, judgemental, and sometimes hypocritical (nobody is perfect).
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post #73 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-02-12, 04:21 PM
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Funny thing. Within 10 minutes of finishing my previous post, my daughter came home saying that her friend's family has an Android Box and can watch new release movies for free. We then had a good discussion on the difference between illegal and dishonest, and about not being judgemental and preachy.
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post #74 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-02-12, 05:41 PM
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Thanks smallmj. I did not mean that only Catholics are morally upright, but I do respect other religions that teach their worshipers to be morally upright as well. And I agree with you, As for your daughter mentioning the Android box, you did the right thing by educating her about right from wrong. I remember when I was younger and there was a Pay Per View Wrestling event on TV and My parents could not afford to purchase it but I REALLY wanted to watch it. I ended up missing the event and NOT watching it, and I turned out just fine. If I really wanted to watch it, my parents would have definately let me, but with the condition I raise the money myself which I actually did at least once.
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post #75 of 788 (permalink) Old 2017-02-12, 05:44 PM
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While I don't condone piracy, the sale of these boxes resulted from the archaic policies of our telecommunications regulators. Much like the satellite piracy days, the public wants access to content that is not available currently through any provider in Canada. This is also the reason why VPN's became so popular with subscribers clamoring for content available on U.S. Netflix that is now geo-blocked.

If we truly want to combat piracy, the solution is simple. Make the content readily (and easily) available to Canadian consumers. I've asked acquaintance’s that own Android boxes if they would be willing to pay for content not currently available in Canada and the response I hear has been overwhelmingly "YES".

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