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post #16 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 11:53 AM
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Hugh, found this on

The Government and the CRTC agree that Globalive meets the requirements. In particular, Canadians own at least 80 percent of the voting shares of Globalive and 66 2/3 percent of the voting shares of Globalive's holding company. Also, at least 80 percent of Globalive's board of directors are Canadians.

Personally I don't care who owns it, we need more competition because all these fees and the prices we pay are ridiculous and something needs to be done about it. If bringing in competetion, no matter where it's from will help, then i'm all for it, all I want to know is when can I sign up with Wind?!
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post #17 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 11:59 AM
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I fully understand the implications but as I noted the feds need to change the laws to show that Canadians need to only own a "majority of voting shares" and not a "majority of shares" - that's a HUGE difference.

If what Clement says is true, then it means that foreign interests should be able to own 100% of Rogers, Cogeco and many other major companies NON voting shares so long as the voting shares are majority voting shares are held by Canadians.

Many would argue (ie. the CRTC) that ceding complete control of non-voting shares to a foreign company is essentially ceding control of the major decisions.

Clements has overruled many long standing precedents and opened a can of worms by essentially saying non-voting shares are meaningless.

If I was a Telco cableco, or bank right now, I would quickly set up two sets of shares (if they haven't already) Voting and Non Voting and start selling non-voting shares to major U.S. investors. They could make a fortune.

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post #18 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 12:02 PM
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With the infinitely complicated financial structure of current corporations, it is very difficult to figure out if it is in compliance with the outdated and anti-competitive Canadian law about foreign ownership. In the end it all came down to the call of the judges - in this case Industry Canada ruled in favour of the competition and consumers, and the CRTC - 100% owned by the incumbent telecommunication monoploies - did what it is paid for - tried to keep the monopoly of their owners intact.
The two things that the government needs to do to avoid being accused of corruption in the future is to change the law and dismantle the CRTC, and either move its functions to Industry Canada or create a new body with strictly technological mandate. This institution is painfully out of date and out of line with the current state of communications in Canada and the world.
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post #19 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 12:06 PM
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I suspect that if one read the words of the Acts setting up the CRTC and the Broadcasting Act references to the CRTC one would find that the Cabinet has the legal power to override CRTC decisions given them by the statute.

Whether they SHOULD use those powers in this case is a different matter. I do agree Hugh, that the Act should be changed to put Bell etc. on the same footing as GlobalLive and with a bit of luck the gov will do this.

I'd like to see a serious player like Orange, France Telecom or Tmobile take a go at our market maybe by taking over Telus.
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post #20 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by V View Post
Let the price wars begin!
There will be price wars in Calgary and Toronto only. While Wind has been given national roaming rights on the incumbent carriers, they will only be offering local service in those two cities. The incumbents will simply offer regional packages similar to what was done when MTS offered an amazing package for Winnipeg.

Wind won't make a difference to many Canadians for a very long time.

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post #21 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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I've read that Wind is planning to have coverage in over 15 cities within 1 year.
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post #22 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 12:53 PM
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Bell reacting to Wind?

Interesting coincidence? On the day WIND is green-lit, my full Hardware Uprgade Credit ($200) is suddenly available today, rather than in 2 weeks time.

If this is the beginning of a Bell push-back to retain customers, it should be quite the ride for the forseeable future.
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post #23 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 01:35 PM
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Its also funny that Rogers just released free 6PM Evenings on new activations and renewals for 3 year contracts. (

EDIT: Looks like Rogers is now also doing free activations (

I am happy that Wind is launching even though it won't directly benefit me at first because I am out in the boonies, but at least it will force Rogers, Bell, and Telus to make some changes for the better.(well at least I hope)

Last edited by googler; 2009-12-11 at 01:38 PM. Reason: added free activations
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post #24 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 01:52 PM
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the correct name for the band that wind/global live will be using is called 3G AWS Band. they have started seperating the uplink and downlink frequencies, so unlike what we're used to, you need both 1700 and 2100 for the phone to function. Because of this, we are now calling it simply 3G AWS instead of the confusing 1700/2100, because there already exists another 2100 with a 1900 mhz uplink called IMT in europ/asia. and we do not want people buying phones that are advertzed as having the 2100 mhz band only to find htey use the 1900 mhz uplink ie IMT and wont function here.
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post #25 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 01:54 PM
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I hope with the launch of Wind it will FORCE the big three to offer much better rates and packages. They have been ripping off Canadians with all these extra charges and inflated cell rates.

It's just crazy when almost everyone wants call id but the 3 big carriers charge you a arm and leg for that feature.

I just checked and see a handfull of the blackberry from Rogers are compatible with wind wireless band, plus the new storm.

Was thinking of upgrading my 8900 for a 9700.

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post #26 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 02:29 PM
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hang on

Hugh: I think you're missing the part where Industry Canada already approved them to play ball in Canada long before this. They passed that test. It was the CRTC, who's decisions aren't necessarily binding, who denied it.

I really don't care WHO owns it. Same as I don't care where my car was made (Japan/US/Mexico/Canada). The bottom line is, whoever gives me the best bang for the buck wins.

Bell/Rogers/Telus routinely ignore the CRTC rulings. And the ones they do follow were written by them anyway. The CRTC is where the corruption lies.
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post #27 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 02:38 PM
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I think you're missing the part where Industry Canada already approved them to play ball in Canada long before this
Hardly. I argued quite vehemently here about the lunacy of the CRTC decision.

If you follow what I have been saying, it's not the decision that is corrupt, its the entire process that is corrupt (again corrupt is used in the sense of a flawed process not in the bribery sense).

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post #28 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 02:39 PM
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Actually most of the media companies including Telus ,Rogers and Shaw already have such a structure. The voting shares are usually controlled by family members, and the non voting shares are held by everybody else. Remember Verizon at one time had close to 50% of Telus non-voting shares.
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post #29 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 02:46 PM
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mactools, yes I know. I used Rogers and Cogeco as examples. Voting and Non-voting shares is a shameful thing we allow in Canada. Virtually impossible to find in the U.S. (I think its actually illegal in some parts of the U.S but not fully sure)

FWIW, I believe Verizon had about 20% of the non-voting shares and interestingly the government had a big issue with that!

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post #30 of 114 (permalink) Old 2009-12-11, 03:11 PM
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Re posts #14 and #24. I sincerely hope that whatever phones Wind makes available are fully compatible with worldwide GSM/3G. A phone that does not immediately work when one gets of the plane in Europe is a major no-no for me. So I guess that would mean 900/1800 + 850/1900 + 1700/2100 not to mention 2.4 or even 5.8 wifi and whatever bands Bluetooth operates on.
Which makes for a lot of radios in one tiny phone.

I did not know until I read post 14 that there was a 1700Mhz band... I assumed that 3g in Canada would use 2100.
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