FIFA/CBC Discussions, split from CBC Thread. - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
 
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-15, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Edit - This thread has been split from the official CBC Thread. The instructions in the first post of the CBC Thread (copy below) have not been followed, hence the split:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...23&postcount=1


Does this mean it'll be in HD, since it's in this forum? And is this a replacement for the Olympics, or for HNIC?

Last edited by 57; 2006-09-25 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Reason for Split
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-15, 09:00 PM
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Does this mean it'll be in HD
There's no mention of HD in the story on the CBC website, but one report I heard today on CBC Radio did say CBC would be broadcasting the events in HD.

The Host Broadcaster for the 2006 World Cup set the bar extremely high when it came to HD; with CBC acting as Host Broadcaster for the U20 World Cup, they'll have to ramp up their HD capabilities significantly to satisfy the high expectations of viewers that were spoiled by all that glorious HD from Germany last summer.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-18, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Nels Stewart View Post
The Host Broadcaster for the 2006 World Cup set the bar extremely high when it came to HD; with CBC acting as Host Broadcaster for the U20 World Cup, they'll have to ramp up their HD capabilities significantly to satisfy the high expectations of viewers that were spoiled by all that glorious HD from Germany last summer.
As Host Broadcaster for the FIFA Men's U-20 (under 20) World Cup in 2007, I certainly hope that the CBC does Canadians proud, but I don't expect them to match the performance of the 2006 FIFA World Cup host broadcaster. That would be like expecting the broadcaster of the Memorial Cup to match the performance of the broadcaster of the Stanley Cup. It is a simple law of economics: fewer viewers means less revenue which means smaller budget which means lower expectations.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-18, 11:38 AM
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That would be like expecting the broadcaster of the Memorial Cup to match the performance of the broadcaster of the Stanley Cup.
Actually, when it comes to HD, they have for the past couple of years.

The U20 World Cup is second only to the World Cup in global reach/importance and having encountered the FIFA machine a few years back, during the Women's U18 World Cup, they set very high standards for the presentation of their events; if they see value in HD broadcasts, then the Host Broadcaster better be able to deliver.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-20, 06:22 PM
 
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This game was excellent quality!

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Originally Posted by Marc View Post
Not on the schedule but HD: Saturday, Sept. 16 CFL MONTREAL at B.C.
9:30pm eastern time.
I hate football and never watch it but I got caught stairing at the headlights as I was channel surtfing. I just sat taking in the glorious HD quality.

Isn't it sad we end up watching stuff we would never watch simply based on PQ.

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-24, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Nels Stewart View Post
There's no mention of HD in the story on the CBC website, but one report I heard today on CBC Radio did say CBC would be broadcasting the events in HD.

The Host Broadcaster for the 2006 World Cup set the bar extremely high when it came to HD; with CBC acting as Host Broadcaster for the U20 World Cup, they'll have to ramp up their HD capabilities significantly to satisfy the high expectations of viewers that were spoiled by all that glorious HD from Germany last summer.
Agreed. Unfortunately they will also have to:

- add another HD channel to allow for simultaneous live coverage of games as TSN and Sportsnet did this summer
- alter their mandate and practices to allow for generous re-broadcasts
- add or retrain staff to address technical problems more quickly (TSN/SN fixed glitches in seconds whereas CBC-HD is known to take several hours to react.)
- improve technical capabilities to try and catch up with TSN-Sportsnet picture quality
- have better plans to deal with labor disruptions (last year's Summer Games was blacked out due to another CBC labor dispute)

All in all, it will be surprising if the end result isn't a big disappointment for viewers. Maybe FIFA will follow the lead of the Canadian and World curling federations and drop CBC mid-contract if the results are poor. At least the CBC apologists will have Don Cherry's "incite"-ful soccer commentary to look forward to....
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-25, 10:31 AM
 
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I can't see techincal problems as they won't be producing any of the content on their own, they'll take the UK feed the same way SN/TSN did.

They won't need another channel, they will sell off some of the games to another channel.

And 2010 is a long time away, who knows how much better the HD landscape will be at that time.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-25, 01:27 PM
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And 2010 is a long time away, who knows how much better the HD landscape will be at that time.
I don't think the concern is 2010; the concern is that CBC is the host broadcaster for the 2007 World Cup and people are wondering if they can pull it off properly ... I thought there was a thread on this somewhere ... but I can't see it.
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-25, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by guido View Post
I can't see techincal problems as they won't be producing any of the content on their own, they'll take the UK feed the same way SN/TSN did.
TSN would switch audio and video within a couple seconds when problems were noted. They even had prescence of mind and preparation to cut over to ABC when required. CBC on the other hand has taken hours to respond to similar problems on their broadcasts.

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They won't need another channel, they will sell off some of the games to another channel.
How do you know that? Nancy Lee's plans for this sound really unformed actually.

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Originally Posted by guido View Post
And 2010 is a long time away, who knows how much better the HD landscape will be at that time.
I think the point is that if CBC is that far behind TSN today, how much further behind will they be in 2007, 2008, etc? Do we have any reason to believe they will catch up?

TSN-Sportsnet did a nice package of pre and post-match that CBC has given no indication they could pull off. Coverage was seamless across TSN and Sportsnet.

Recent history doesn't lend confidence to the CBC bid:

- Curling: they missed many of the broadcasts people wanted to see, buried coverage on a niche channel (Country canada). When people subscribed to Country Canada to get coverage, CBC abruptly flipped coverage off Country Canada with no warning, disrupting viewers and wasting their money.

- Olympics - American networks provided more hours of coverage, more live events, better analysis, picture quality and reliability. Not only that, but their coverage teams were better informed much more impartial!

- CFL - CBC's CFL broadcast is much weaker than TSN's, the picture quality suffers in the comparison, games are inexplicably shown in low-def even when HD truck and gear at at the stadium. HD broadcasts are scheduled haphazardly, either being low-def when scheduled for HD, and sometimes HD when the schedule says low-def. TSN will rebroadcast games off-hours in full HD, not so on CBC - CBC's airs test patterns instead.

- NHL - CBC shunned available HD feeds of hockey, content instead to use their own low def signals. They blamed a lack of available HD equipment, but somehow the tiny OLN with very limited budget was able to provide more and better HD coverage of NHL hockey. Moving pictures were blockier than the same events on NBC and OLN.

- Summer Games - CBC bought exclusive rights to this event and blocked all other broadcasters. Then they timed a lockout of their workers to coincide with this event. CBC officials were unapologetic of their decision which wasted money and deprived citizens of coverage for this national event. Apparently they timed this lockout hoping to break the worker's resolve in time for the lucrative hockey season.

These are my indicators of how the CBC soccer deal *might* go. What indicators do you have that it might go differently?
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-25, 04:08 PM
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Neild, your CBC bashing posts, and other posts regarding CBC and FIFA have been split from the Official CBC thread. Reasons are indicated in post 1 of this thread.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-25, 04:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Neild View Post
TSN would switch audio and video within a couple seconds when problems were noted. They even had prescence of mind and preparation to cut over to ABC when required. CBC on the other hand has taken hours to respond to similar problems on their broadcasts.
Anecdotal. I'm sure there are some occurrences of gaffes on behalf of TSN/RSN.

Quote:
I think the point is that if CBC is that far behind TSN today, how much further behind will they be in 2007, 2008, etc? Do we have any reason to believe they will catch up?
Do we have any reason to believe they will not catch up? They've gone from zero to what they have presently in just under two years. How much improvement have we seen in TSN/RSN during that timeframe?

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Olympics - American networks provided more hours of coverage, more live events, better analysis, picture quality and reliability. Not only that, but their coverage teams were better informed much more impartial!
This is a comparison between American networks and the CBC - I thought we were comparing TSN/RSN and the CBC. The American networks have a ton more $$$ to spend and more years experience in broadcasting HD.

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CFL - CBC's CFL broadcast is much weaker than TSN's, the picture quality suffers in the comparison, games are inexplicably shown in low-def even when HD truck and gear at at the stadium. HD broadcasts are scheduled haphazardly, either being low-def when scheduled for HD, and sometimes HD when the schedule says low-def.
I can't say that I really notice much difference between TSN and CBC's CFL broadcasts; the broadcast of SD when HD is advertised or the opposite I've seen on TSN as well. For that matter, this past weekend, both games that were on TSN on Saturday were on the SD channel only--the HD channel was showing HD racing, despite the Guide claiming that both games were to be available in HD.


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TSN will rebroadcast games off-hours in full HD, not so on CBC - CBC's airs test patterns instead.
CBC has a different mandate than TSN. TSN is a dedicated sports station, CBC is not.

Quote:
NHL - CBC shunned available HD feeds of hockey, content instead to use their own low def signals.
.

The issue is (in my opinion) less HD vs. SD than that they wanted to use their own commentators, and have control of replays, etc. I don't believe they would be allowed to just substitute somone else's feed (ie. union rules, contracts with on-air talent, etc.)

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Summer Games - CBC bought exclusive rights to this event and blocked all other broadcasters. Then they timed a lockout of their workers to coincide with this event.
Sorry- what event are you talking about?

Oh, the Canada Summer Games. Does anyone really watch those?

Quote:
Apparently they timed this lockout hoping to break the worker's resolve in time for the lucrative hockey season.
Sounds like a smart business decision to me. But I don't see how it has any bearing on their ability to show the FIFA World Cup in HD.

I'm not even sure why you're bothering on speculating on how bad the CBC's broadcast might be, 4 years prior to said broadcast.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-25, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
Anecdotal. I'm sure there are some occurrences of gaffes on behalf of TSN/RSN.
OK, what are they? Even if you can actually locate any, they certain don't compare to the many and major gaffes the CBC sports division has pulled the last few years.

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
They've gone from zero to what they have presently in just under two years. How much improvement have we seen in TSN/RSN during that timeframe?
Um, much more?

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
This is a comparison between American networks and the CBC - I thought we were comparing TSN/RSN and the CBC. The American networks have a ton more $$$ to spend and more years experience in broadcasting HD.
Quantify "a ton" of more funding. CBC has a billion dollar budget. NBC does not get a lot of funding for NHL hockey. And how about OLN? They aren't even in the same galaxy as CBC when it comes to budget.

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
I can't say that I really notice much difference between TSN and CBC's CFL broadcasts;
I can't help you then... discerning viewers see a huge difference. You have never noticed the blocky picture and major delta in commentary? Seriously???

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
the broadcast of SD when HD is advertised or the opposite I've seen on TSN as well. For that matter, this past weekend, both games that were on TSN on Saturday were on the SD channel only--the HD channel was showing HD racing, despite the Guide claiming that both games were to be available in HD.
OK, I think you are confusing guide with network here. TSN has committed to HD football every Friday night, and they have come through on that commitment 100%. TSN did broadcast Nascar to its conclusion on Sunday, no surprise there though, that was scheduled.

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
CBC has a different mandate than TSN. TSN is a dedicated sports station, CBC is not.
...which backs up my contention that sports fans should be worried when it comes to soccer coverage on CBC. How do we know soccer games won't be shunted to Country Canada, blacked out due to labor manipulation, or pre-empted for Simpsons or American Idol clone programming?

[QUOTE=pjreid;429370]
Oh, the Canada Summer Games. Does anyone really watch those?
[/QUOTE=pjreid;429370]
Not in Canada, thanks to our national broadcaster's exclusive and highly restrictive contract, nobody saw them. Competing networks were even restricted from reporting bare results without a delay.
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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
But I don't see how it has any bearing on their ability to show the FIFA World Cup in HD.
[/QUOTE=pjreid;429370]
Let me connect A to B... would you like it if soccer gets blacked out because CBC is trying to squeeze concessions out of their work force? Or if the work force decides to ransom CBC hockey by disrupting soccer?

I'm not even sure why you're bothering on speculating on how bad the CBC's broadcast might be, 4 years prior to said broadcast.
Same reason you're speculating that CBC will magically improve in the future... and if you'd read the source material, you'd know the deal starts Jan 1, 2007 and has a massive duration, spreading out to 2014. If this were a 1 year deal or something we could probably pinch our noses and hope for better afterwards. But this deal starts so soon and is so long, so there is genuine cause for worry by sports fans.

There's good reason to speculate CBC is going to starve its sports division even further than they already have. What effect will that have on this soccer coverage.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-25, 05:24 PM
 
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OK, what are they? Even if you can actually locate any, they certain don't compare to the many and major gaffes the CBC sports division has pulled the last few years.
You haven't specified which gaffes the CBC has done either. You've only asserted that the CBC has done more.

Quote:
(in reference to TSN/RSN's improvement in the last two years)
Um, much more?
Just the kind of backing evidence I've come to expect from you

If I recall correctly, RSN used to broadcast all Raptors home games in HD a couple years ago; last year they broadcast 0 (zero) in HD. This is improvement?

Quote:
Quantify "a ton" of more funding. CBC has a billion dollar budget. NBC does not get a lot of funding for NHL hockey.
Your point that I responded to was dealing with the Olympics. NBC spent well over $600 million US on the Torino Olympics (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=5232275). That's ove half of CBC's entire yearly operating budget.

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I can't help you then... discerning viewers see a huge difference. You have never noticed the blocky picture and major delta in commentary? Seriously???
I don't see such a huge difference that it's worth commenting on.

Quote:
OK, I think you are confusing guide with network here. TSN has committed to HD football every Friday night, and they have come through on that commitment 100%. TSN did broadcast Nascar to its conclusion on Sunday, no surprise there though, that was scheduled.
Obviously at some point the CFL games must have been scheduled, otherwise they wouldn't have been in the Guide with "HD" in the title.

Quote:
(Canada Summer Games not available)
Not in Canada, thanks to our national broadcaster's exclusive and highly restrictive contract, nobody saw them.
My point is that...no one really cares about the Canada Summer Games except:
a) those participating/sponsoring/otherwise directly involved
b) rabid sports fans

The average Joe doesn't care about the Canada Summer Games; the average (Canadian) Joe cares quite a bit about NHL hockey--hence CBC's decision to lockout during that event and not during the hockey season. A smart business decision. FIFA has a much higher profile than the CSG--your analogy doesn't hold water here.

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Same reason you're speculating that CBC will magically improve in the future...
"Magically improve"...the CBC has improved in just under 2 years of broadcasting HD. Why would they not continue doing so?

Quote:
and if you'd read the source material, you'd know the deal starts Jan 1, 2007 and has a massive duration, spreading out to 2014. If this were a 1 year deal or something we could probably pinch our noses and hope for better afterwards. But this deal starts so soon and is so long, so there is genuine cause for worry by sports fans.
In that timeframe, we're talking about exactly 2 World Cups. Much fewer people care about and/or watch the more minor tournaments. CBC has 4 years to get ready for the 2010 FIFA World Cup. Give them a chance.

Quote:
There's good reason to speculate CBC is going to starve its sports division even further than they already have. What effect will that have on this soccer coverage.
Ads from sports coverage brings in 40% of CBC's non-government revenues. I don't see them stripping much more out of their sports division.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-26, 11:49 AM
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You haven't specified which gaffes the CBC has done either.
Do you even read before you post?
I made a list of CBC's sports biggest gaffes in the last year or two. Go back and read it before posting false stuff.

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
Just the kind of backing evidence I've come to expect from you
I can't help you if you post without reading first.

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
JYour point that I responded to was dealing with the Olympics. NBC spent well over $600 million US on the Torino Olympics (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=5232275). That's ove half of CBC's entire yearly operating budget.
OK, so that's the new excuse for the CBC apologists? More funding will mean less screwups? Well this is progress I suppose.... at least you are admitting finally that CBC's Olympic coverage was poor relative to NBC's.

So tell us then, if they screw up this much on 1 billion, how many billion will it take to reduce the screwups to the point where they aren't a regular source of controversy? Personally I don't think money is the issue here, commitment and quality are.

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
In that timeframe, we're talking about exactly 2 World Cups.
OK, I see you don't know much about soccer, otherwise you would know that's not true.

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
Give them a chance.
Do we have any other choice? Yes we'll give them a chance, but it's frustrating that year after year we keep having to pinch our noses at CBC and pray that 'next year' they'll make the needed improvements. Why can't they just do better now, like everyone else is able to?

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Originally Posted by pjreid View Post
Ads from sports coverage brings in 40% of CBC's non-government revenues. I don't see them stripping much more out of their sports division.
I'm not sure what your interests are PJReid. Obviously not really sports or HDTV. But how about politics? You do realize CBC and their funding are definitely up for grabs under 'Canada's new government'. CBC sports division underwent major changes even when they were in a protected political environment. Now that they aren't protected, it's anyone's guess what the future holds for them.

Not only that, but within the last year, CRTC has started making big and bold decisions. It's not unrealistic they could continue this trend and make some decisions that impact CBC and their sports division.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 2006-09-26, 12:20 PM
 
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Do you even read before you post?
I made a list of CBC's sports biggest gaffes in the last year or two. Go back and read it before posting false stuff.
No you didn't. You asserted that "CBC has taken hours to fix such errors". I don't see any specific examples, other than your assertion that this has happened. Which event(s) are we talking about that took the CBC hours to fix their problems?

Quote:
OK, so that's the new excuse for the CBC apologists? More funding will mean less screwups? Well this is progress I suppose.... at least you are admitting finally that CBC's Olympic coverage was poor relative to NBC's.
I'm saying the following:
NBC's budget for the Olympics was more than half of the CBC's entire operating budget for the year; hence their ability to show everything in HD, including their own specialized coverage.

CBC obviously was unable to. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that if they had the budget, they would have done so as well.

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So tell us then, if they screw up this much on 1 billion, how many billion will it take to reduce the screwups to the point where they aren't a regular source of controversy?
The only one I see stirring up controversy on here is you.

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OK, I see you don't know much about soccer, otherwise you would know that's not true.
Umm...name which World Cups there will be between now and 2014, other than 2010 and 2014. And I'm not talking about the Women's World Cup, the U-20 World Cup, etc.--these do not have the mass appeal of the FIFA World Cup.

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Do we have any other choice? Yes we'll give them a chance, but it's frustrating that year after year we keep having to pinch our noses at CBC and pray that 'next year' they'll make the needed improvements.
So dramatic, that "year after year" reference. You make it sound like it's been 10 to 20 years of no improvement. It's not even been two years yet.

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Why can't they just do better now, like everyone else is able to?
Everyone else? Who, A&E? SunTV? CityTV? None of these broadcasters/channels have been doing much better than the CBC.

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I'm not sure what your interests are PJReid. Obviously not really sports or HDTV
Think what you think. I'm both a sports fan and an HDTV enthusiast. I just am more ready to give slack than you are.

<snip paranoia about the government killing the CBC's sports division>

<snip paranoia about the CRTC making decisions that impact the CBC's sports division>

I won't respond to paranoid speculation.
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