Power Bar (UPS, Surge, Etc) Info and Discussion - Page 16 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #226 of 247 (permalink) Old 2014-04-19, 06:15 PM
 
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I own two monster units the HDP 2500 (refurbs from visions). What I like about it is the fact they actually momentarily shut down during a bad spike. The line conditioning I take with a grain of salt, but I can see it perhaps making components last longer. And as for replacement warranty all vendors warranties usually only replace damaged units as per their value after depreciation. Any way I agree the monster units are over priced and I certainly would not pay over $100 each for either of my units.
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post #227 of 247 (permalink) Old 2014-04-19, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by betamaxman View Post
What I like about it is the fact they actually momentarily shut down during a bad spike.
This is precisely what you're trying to avoid when you have a UPS instead of simply a surge protector. If you have a PVR, the last thing you want is a head crash due to some sort of power interruption - hence the UPS recommendations earlier in this thread.

The only real protection from a major surge is to unplug electronic equipment beforehand - like in a lightning storm, or if you have an extended power failure - there are often surges when the power comes back.

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post #228 of 247 (permalink) Old 2014-04-19, 08:46 PM
 
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Perhaps, but then my pvr and media player hard drives are also plugged into a cheap ups, 'ultra' 250 va if memory serves. Some power centers also have battery backup (monster as well) but all brands that do so are priced high. Sadly the power center can not unplug components prior to a surge, will have to settle for it just cutting power.
Shutting down and unplugging during a lightening storm goes with out saying no matter what you use for power management.
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post #229 of 247 (permalink) Old 2014-04-20, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by betamaxman View Post
What I like about it is the fact they actually momentarily shut down during a bad spike.
Surges are done in microseconds. A shutdown takes milliseconds. Hundreds of consecutive surges could pass through that Monster before it even thought about shutting down. You have assumed features that the Monster does not do.

Same applies to a UPS. Read its specification numbers. Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does that UPS claim to absorb? Hundreds? How many joules does the Monster claim to absorb? Near zero.

Yes, they can claim surge protection because it does something above zero. But is near zero protection really protection?

Generally a surge does damage. Or is made irrelevant by protection inside appliances. A PSU will often consume a smaller surge as electricity to power electronics. Convert it to stable DC. Then convert that (and AC mains electricity) into over 300 volt radio wave spikes. Those spikes are converted to rock solid and state DC voltages (ie 3.3, 12 volts). Where is better protection? Power supplies routinely create high voltage spikes. Then convert them into best DC voltages for electronics. Best protection is already inside. What does the Monster, et al do?

Read its specifications. It only claims to protect from a type of surge that typically does not do damage. It does not claim to protect from a type of surge that would blow through the '300+ volt spike to low voltage DC' converter.

Monster specs define a protector circuit similar to what sells in big box stores for $10. Monster adds an expensive case, switched outlets, USB power, and a volt meter that reports nothing useful. It claims protection just like a power strip. Its specifications claim no line conditioning. Monster simply implies these functions in advertising - where spin and lying is legal. They cannot lie in numeric specifications.

It sacrificed to save some appliance? To avert a house fire, an undersized protector must disconnect protector parts as fast as possible. And leave a surge connected to appliances. Since protection inside appliances is more robust, the appliance remains unharmed. By grossly undersizing, a failed protector promotes sales. It fails on a surge too tiny to damage nearby appliances. Best protection was already inside appliances.

If its thermal fuse does not disconnect fast enough, then a fire may happen. APC (under new ownership) admitted last October that many of their protectors are also dangerous. Those protectors must be removed immediately. That reality should concern you.
A completely different device is necessary to protect appliances. And to avert plug-in protector created fires. Unfortunately this well proven solution is also called a surge protector. Meaning most consumers do not know of this effective and tens of times less expensive solution.

Realities found in its numeric specs (that contradict advertising claims) should concern you - seriously.
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post #230 of 247 (permalink) Old 2015-03-16, 03:17 PM
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I picked up a APC Smart UPS 1000 today for $380 taxes in. Ive used APC back UPS from Staples before, I'm wondering how this one would compare?
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post #231 of 247 (permalink) Old 2015-03-16, 03:37 PM
 
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Well, I bought an APC BE750BB UPS (now discontinued) seven years ago and it's still working, original battery. From that I'd conclude it's a reliable brand.
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post #232 of 247 (permalink) Old 2015-03-16, 04:29 PM
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I picked up a APC Smart UPS 1000 today for $380 taxes in.
Smart-UPS are a good product and that's a good price for that model. Smart-UPS have features targeted at businesses. However, they tend to cost quite a bit more than Back-UPS models. A Back -PS with similar power specs could be picked up for about half the price. Costco has the APC Back-UPS Pro 1300 for $189 and a Tripp Lite SMART1000 for $139. (Tripp Lite is a reputable company that has been in the power market for many years.) I've had a Back-UPS Pro 1300 for about 7-8 years. It's a great UPS with more than enough power for a couple of PCs or extended outages with one. I've had to replace the batteries twice now. (Cheaper on Amazon.) They usually last about 3-4 years, less if deep cycled during power outages.

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...seven years ago and it's still working, original battery.
I've never seen a lead-acid battery that lasted much beyond 5 years. Seven year old UPS batteries might appear to be OK but they will likely fail quickly under stress, right when they are needed most. I'd recommend testing the battery by running an extended self test or unplugging the UPS for about 2 to 5 minutes under load (or half its stated run time, if known.) If the APC software is installed, running an extended self test will recalibrate the battery ratings and indicate if it needs replacing.
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post #233 of 247 (permalink) Old 2015-03-16, 04:58 PM
 
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I've never seen a lead-acid battery that lasted much beyond 5 years. Seven year old UPS batteries might appear to be OK but they will likely fail quickly under stress, right when they are needed most. I'd recommend testing the battery by running an extended self test or unplugging the UPS for about 2 to 5 minutes under load (or half its stated run time, if known.) If the APC software is installed, running an extended self test will recalibrate the battery ratings and indicate if it needs replacing.
You're probably right. I know I got a message about the battery years ago, but then it stopped coming up. Right now it tells me it has 26 minutes battery time, which seems like less than what it used to say. But I don't need something that will let me work for an hour after a power outage, just something that will let me save my work without losing it.

Oh yeah, APC recommends I replace the battery at least once every 3 years, but since the UPS is doing all I expect of it, I see no point. I replaced my car battery after 5 years last fall because it occasionally let me down the previous winter. However, an old UPS battery won't leave me stranded in a snowstorm.
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post #234 of 247 (permalink) Old 2015-03-16, 04:58 PM
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I also have a couple of APC Smart UPSs that I bought perhaps 12-15 years ago. Other than replacing batteries a couple of times, no problems.

I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...
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post #235 of 247 (permalink) Old 2015-03-16, 05:34 PM
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I have had 5 APC UPS and I've been very happy with their performance. Here's the history:

BF250, Purchased 1997, Battery replaced in 2012. Unit (inside circuit) failed in 2013 and has been recycled.
BF500BB, Purchased 2004, Battery replaced in 2012 when the APC "test" indicated poor battery. Functioning well.
BX1000, Purchased 2005, (replaced in 2016 with UPS APC BE750BB when it failed "test" on circuitry)
ES750, Purchased 2011, Original Battery. Still functioning just fine.

So, the ones that needed replacing lasted 16 and 11 years The other two are still working after 14 and 7 years. The most recent one is only 2 years old (for me), and was purchased refurbished for around $50, so I'm unsure of the overall age.

APC UPS usually have a self-test and it will tell you if that test fails (circuit and battery). I have also "needed" these UPS during some recent power failures and they have performed well, keeping my equipment running as long as necessary (PVRs and computer).

The smaller UPS were around $50 each and the large one was $150. I typically see no reason to purchase a "smart" UPS for the home due to the high cost, but that's your choice.

Good place to buy UPS or replacement batteries: UPSforLESS | Power Backup Experts | Home
If you watch the sales at electronics stores, you can usually get a UPS for half price.


OT - The original battery in one car lasted over 6 years and the replacement battery in our other car was 8 years old when I traded the (19-year old) car last year - although I would have probably replaced it before the winter. Whenever I replace car batteries, I get the best one I can find that fits. I use Crosstown Battery Sales on Musgrave St. for car and alarm system batteries.

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Last edited by 57; 2018-06-11 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Edited for UPS APC BE750BB
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post #236 of 247 (permalink) Old 2015-10-09, 09:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wz286t View Post
If you happen to still have any APC 8 Series or 7 Series surge strips manufactured before 2003 - you might be able to have them replaced due to this massive recall:
I just received 2 replacements after about a 10 week wait.
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post #237 of 247 (permalink) Old 2016-03-26, 02:27 AM
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PS Audio make very good surge protection power products although I do not own one. I trust the company and do own a PS Audio 4.6 stereo pre-amplifier that is the heart of my 2 channel stereo. I protect my audio systems, home theater system and Mac Pro computer with ISOBAR Ultra surge protection by TrippLite. I have two Isobar Ultra 8 outlet and two Isobar Ultra 4 outlet. TrippLite makes cheaper surge power bars but I stick with their heavy duty ISOBAR lineup. My very first 8 outlet Isobar had an issue after about 15 years so I contacted TrippLite by email in Chicago. They asked me for some information and shipped a brand new replacement no charge that week. That is a real lifetime warranty that means lifetime!
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post #238 of 247 (permalink) Old 2018-06-11, 10:08 AM
 
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Monster HTS - 1700 turns on and off

I think my monster power Center has packed it in . Yesterday within 15 mins it switched itself ( and what was plugged in ) on and off twice . I had my PS4 , a lamp and my Yamaha Reciever plugged in .

My electrician friend told me to get sone sort of UPS battery back up unit . I see them made by APC for $60 to $600 . What's everyone's thoughts ? Is monster worth getting a new one ? Battery back up ? Is there another brand that's a better value ? Thanks in advance
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post #239 of 247 (permalink) Old 2018-06-11, 11:23 AM
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I've always liked Tripp Lite products. Their Isobar line represents good quality and value.

A lot of the stuff at Best Buy is overpriced garbage. I purchased $150 for a power bar from them once. After a year I took it apart to see what was in it. The plugs were low grade steel that was starting to corrode and the surge components were the cheapest junk available and almost useless. I've seen $25 power bars that were better made.

Monster products had a reputation for good quality but were always overpriced. The prices have gone down but I wonder if the quality has as well.

A good quality UPS can be a good idea but use it with caution. Some components can benefit from backup power but others could be damaged by a cheap UPS. Components, such a AV receivers with transformers, should receive surge protection only or only be used with a pure sine wave output UPS for power protection. AV receivers can draw quite a lot of power so a 1500w UPS is required. A 1500 watt pure sine wave UPS will be quite expensive. The components that will benefit most from backup power are things like PVRs or HTPCs that could suffer from interrupted recordings and other issues when a sudden power loss occurs. Components like AV receivers and TVs generally only need surge protection. Just providing surge protection for most components and power backup to critical components with a 500w-1000w UPS will be a lot cheaper. I have an 800VA APC UPS powering my AV system with the AV receiver and TV on the surge only side. It has worked well.
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post #240 of 247 (permalink) Old 2018-06-11, 11:32 AM
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@Leeboy , I've moved your post to this existing thread on the topic. There are lots of previous discussions, even though some of them are old. As stated by @ExDilbert above, Mon$ter equipment is typically way overpriced and although the quality is sometimes OK, it's rarely worth the money since other equipment can be had for much less.

See post 235 of this thread. I've been very happy with my APC equipment.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/203-...ml#post2455305

I've found no need for "pure sine-wave" power and I keep my equipment for a long time. (The pure sine-wave power only applies to the battery side anyway when power is lost) My AVR is plugged into the "surge only" side of the UPS as is all my high power draw equipment, so it goes down when there's a power failure. My PVRs and other "low draw" equipment are plugged into the battery side which is also surge protected.

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