Power Bar (UPS, Surge, Etc) Info and Discussion - Page 13 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #181 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-11, 06:27 PM
 
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Don't use the coax protection on the power bar if you have a stb.
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post #182 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-12, 12:03 AM
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Wingfan, There are so many different products on the market with "coax protection", and most are ambiguous (or offer no info) as to how this is achieved...or what is actually being stopped.

In my opinion, based on a few examples that I had and opened to inspect, the "surge protection" is typically only applicable to the power outlets. The coax connector simply grounds out the outer braid of the coax. Excessive energy can still travel down the centre conductor of the coax, damaging equipment.

Given that most coax entering the home from outside (antenna, cable, satellite) is--or should be--grounded at or near the point of entry to the home, this level of protection is redundant and unnecessary.

True coaxial surge protection should capture or stop excessive energy along the centre conductor. There are several ways to accomplish this. Often an inert gas tube is used.

Bottom line: If the powerbar you intend to purchase cannot or does not specifically claim to stop coaxial centre conductor energy spikes, then it's probably not a true surge protector for coax.

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post #183 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-12, 12:17 AM
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It's still useful to run the coax through the power bar since it helps to neutralize ground loops and spikes that may be carried on the ground conductor. Other than that, I agree that many of these devices have questionable coax protection. The phone line protection is often useless as well since they often have little more than a small MOV between the center conductors. That won't do much good if a large surge to ground occurs on the phone line.

I tend to think of A/V protection like a bird on a wire. As long as all connections are at the same level to ground, damage will be minimal. I also add a GFI. It won't act fast enough to neutralize spikes, the surge protector does that, but it will shut the power off if extended ground faults, that could damage other equipment, are present.

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post #184 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-12, 01:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingfan View Post
thanks how exactly does coax protection work on these things?
It claims to absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules. And hopes you ignore numbers in the specifications. Because it only claims to absorb hundreds of joules.

It claims its 2 centimeter part will stop what three miles of sky could not. Again, recommended when so many do not ask or answer those two damning questions.

Either energy connects to earth harmlessly outside a building. Or protection already inside electronics is your only protection. Sometimes, those Tripplite and Monster boxes can earth a surge destructively through one adjacent appliance.

The NIST (US government research agency that studies surges) says what an effective protector must do:
> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it. What these protective
> devices do is neither suppress nor arrest a surge, but simply divert it to ground,
> where it can do no harm.

You don't need a protector to do diverting. As Jase88 noted, cable must be earthed (via a hardwire) before entering the building. Your cable must connect low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to the same earth ground electrodes used by telephone and AC electric. Only then does protection exist - as defined by the NIST.
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post #185 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-13, 10:35 AM
 
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thanks again!
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post #186 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-17, 07:57 AM
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Even when everything is appropriately grounded, you are still at risk of a surge/spike that travels down the center conductor. That's the whole point of a surge suppressor. It shunts the spike to ground as per your NIST quote above.
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post #187 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-17, 08:07 AM
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Cables grounded at different points are still susceptible to ground loops and large spikes at AC or RF frequencies. It's best to ground all cables at a common point close to the A/V system in addition to grounding all cables where they enter the building.

At 20 I had a good mind. At 40 I had money. At 60 I've lost my mind and my money. Oh, to be 20 again. --Scary
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post #188 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-19, 08:58 AM
 
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According to a friend, they lost everything connected to their cable internet during the last lightning storm. During that same storm, I had my Wii power cable trip (didnt know about this 'protection'). It was plugged into a surge protector too. During any lightning storm, I always unplug anything of value, and did the same for this storm, but a surge or something must have occurred after the storm. Anyway, unplugging the power cable at both ends 'reset' it and now it works.

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post #189 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-09-19, 10:10 AM
 
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According to a friend, they lost everything connected to their cable internet during the last lightning storm.
Once a surge is all but invited inside, then a surge goes hunting for earth destructively via appliances. When cable already has superior protection, then that surge obtains earth destructively through those appliances.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Either a surge dissipates harmlessly outside. Or that surge hunts for earth inside and destructively via appliances. The friend had damage because he had no effective protection. Because he all but invited a surge to go hunting destructively.

It is called electricity. A surge must have both an incoming and another outgoing wire to cause damage. If both conductors do not exist, then an appliance is not damaged. Damage most often occurs on the outgoing surge path - ie coax cable connection. An informed consumer than asks, "What was the incoming path?" That is where missing protection must be corrected.

Did a surge enter on the cable, do damage, then stop? That even contradicts what was taught in elementary school science. The friend had damage because he all but invited a surge to go hunting destructively inside his house. Protectors adjacent to appliances even make that damage easier.

To have protection means a protector must be within feet of single point earth ground. Separation between protector and appliances is also necessary for protection. But most important is the only item that absorbs those hundreds of thousands of joules. Where a surge dissipates harmlessly outside. Single point earth ground.
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post #190 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-10-05, 08:46 PM
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Safe to Use Short Extender on UPS?

Possibly wrong forum but my other UPS questions are here so... here goes.

Anyone know if it's safe to use a 1ft 18 AWG Outlet Saver Power Extension Cord with a UPS?

My new DSL AC adapter is using up the space of 2 sockets so now my cordless phone is without UPS.

Everyone seems to say never to use extension cords with a UPS but in this case it is fairly short and for a low load device.

If this isn't safe, does anyone have any alternatives? All these new wide AC adapters use up too much space!
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post #191 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-10-05, 09:15 PM
 
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I see no reason why not, I have a power bar plugged into mine with no problems for over a year.
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post #192 of 247 (permalink) Old 2011-10-05, 11:26 PM
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Probably also earlier in this thread, but here's the link:

http://nam-en.apc.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1372

You may feel free to ignore their suggestions with a short cord (I do on one of my UPS). I think it's to cover their behinds because some people use very inexpensive cords. "Power Strip Liberator" or similar chords are often used by people who have a bunch of wall warts.

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post #193 of 247 (permalink) Old 2012-01-29, 03:29 PM
 
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Question Power Conditioner/Surge Protector

Does anyone use the Belkin PureAV FP60 in their system? How do you like it and can the display be fully turned off. I have read somewhere that it only has few dimming settings but not full off.

I was originally going to purchases the Panamax 4300-PM but the Belkin would look better with my setup. I don't know what is better.
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post #194 of 247 (permalink) Old 2012-01-29, 04:22 PM
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Short extension cords work OK with an APC UPS. Just make sure it's 3 prong and heavy duty. Cords sold for use with air conditioners and other large appliances are best. I've used a 50 foot #12 AWG cord with a UPS and it worked fine. I've also seen what happens when an APC UPS is plugged into a filtered power bar. The results are unpredictable and can cause UPS shutdown and other odd behavior. Don't do it.

At 20 I had a good mind. At 40 I had money. At 60 I've lost my mind and my money. Oh, to be 20 again. --Scary
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post #195 of 247 (permalink) Old 2012-01-29, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalPixel View Post
Does anyone use the Belkin PureAV FP60 in their system?
I have it and I like it. But you cannot fully dim the display. Super dark window tint does the trick.
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