Netgear router with MTS Internet - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-09, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Netgear router with MTS Internet

I've enjoyed using my own router despite MTS provision in their 3800 gateway device.

Yesterday I updated firmware in my Netgear 3500L and then couldn't make it work. I had to go back to my old Linksys WRT54G.

The problem seems to be that MTS instructions (https://www.mts.ca/file_source/mts.c...figuration.pdf) say to change the router's IP address to 192.168.100.200 and to disable DHCP server function. I can't see how to do either of those in the Netgear, whereas it is very simple in the Linksys.

Does anyone else have experience with this?

Dave S.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-09, 03:55 PM
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Under advanced settings, look for LAN Setup. Changes can be made there



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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-09, 03:56 PM
 
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The simplest way to use your own router, Netgear 3500L included, with MTS is as follows:

1. Connect all MTS supplied equipment including TV boxes to the MTS supplied gateway.

2. Using Ethernet (ie network cable) connect your router to the Gateway using your router's uplink port if applicable.

3. Set your router to dynamically obtain an IP from the service provide.

4. Leave DHCP enabled on your router (counter to MTS instructions), this is normally the default setting.

You only need to disable DHCP on your router if you have a device plugged into the gateway and a second device connecting to the router that need to talk to each other over the local network.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-09, 06:09 PM
 
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Why does MTS have those instructions then?

Another option I've heard of is to put the customer owned router into DMZ?

Authorized Service Provider (Contractor) for MTS Allstream. Any views expressed are my own.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-10, 11:23 PM
 
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The issue with running DHCP is that it sets up an internal network. If you have two routers, the MTS Gateway and your own device, ie a Netgear 3500L, then devices on one router (ie gateway) cannot talk to devices on the other (ie Netgear). If everything you are running only connects to the Netgear there is no issue. I have run that exact configuration for five+ years without issue.

The reason MTS wants the second DHCP disabled is that most people have no knowledge of running their own network and adding a second DHCP could lead to issues I described and result in support calls to MTS.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-10, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the explanation. The one thing I might consider plugging into the gateway would be a network adapter in the TV itself to see what "smart" TV is all about.

Dave S.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-11, 01:13 AM
 
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Thanks for elaborating Cory. That's called a double NAT, right?

Authorized Service Provider (Contractor) for MTS Allstream. Any views expressed are my own.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-12, 12:11 PM
 
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Correct, that would be a double NAT. Chances are really high that if a customer has their own router everything will connect through that.

We basically have three scenarios:

1. Customer only has the Gateway.
2. Customer has a gateway and a router with all devices using the router.
3. Customer has both gateway and router and knows what they are doing.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-01-14, 08:20 AM
 
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Best Thread Ever. Thanks.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-03-30, 11:30 PM
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MTS & Netgear Issue

Hi there. Hopefully this thread with the last post being in January, will alert at least one "in the know" and you can answer these questions.

I too have MTS and for the past 9 years or so have been using their DSL Speedstream unit. Obviously this is only a single plug-in type model, not wireless etc. I'm about to get their 2Wire device in the next few days-wireless router etc etc. For the past few years I've been using a Netgear 3700 dual-band wireless unit, pretty good one I might add.

I've spoken to MTS about what their new unit will offer me and what I'll be able to change. I've had problems with how the Netgear and the MTS unit communicate and how it sometimes stalls out and I have NO service until a physical reboot of both devices.

In this thread it is mentioned about the DHCP and MTS's requirement(s). Up to today I didn't know what DHCP was about nor did I know where to look to possibly change in my router if necess. Found it under LAN of course, mine was set by default to enabled.

My questions concern some things that my provider either won't say or can't say. They offer little support when it comes to equipment that they have not provided.

My setup: all devices be they wireless or wired, all go through the Netgear Router. After they bring me the Gateway unit I'm guessing I can just use all of it through their device. Currently we use a DNS unblocking service (Unblockus) so we can view content from a place like Netflix. To do this for toehr regions (we're currently in Canada) I know to change from automatically obtain an IP Address to manually input Unblockus's provided numbers.

I have had issues with this setting and via Unblockus OR is it the router itself? I asked MTS about this before and since I'm not much for the technical stuff, they offered an answer that seemed to be something like a communication problem between devices as follows: My primary and secondary dns are set to what Unblockus requires. Obviously from within Canada I can view Netflix content from Netherlands, Mexico etc., all fine. The system never fails when doing so. On the other hand, when trying to watch something common like YouTube, I can get through a few videos and at some point in the last one, it'll freeze up and then when I check my service, nothing, the MTS Speedstream has locked up and trying to surf anything else proves the service has stalled. A physical reboot of devices in the required order is then necessary. 1. MTS device, 2. Netgear. Done

I asked MTS about changing the primary & secondary DNS later on with their Gateway device and they advised that it should be left to automatically obtain an IP address. Okay, I get that, their service, I'm really not surfing anonymously, altering it on the Netgear device is somehow causing problems? (since looked up what a VPN actually does as opposed to just a DNS unblocking service)

I'm wanting to know in advance if possible, IF I'm going to manually be able to change my primary and secondary address IF I don't wish to use my Netgear router in conjunction with their equipment. I'm upgrading to their Lightning 25 package and have been on their Classic Lightning for quite sometime, speeds will "apparently" improve from what is now maybe 7mbps to 25..whatever I guess....

I would still like to use Unblockus as it allows us to use services from other regions as you all prob. know anyway? Would you recommend that we can still use the dual-band Netgear router (2.4/5Ghz) or would MTS's gateway suffice? I intend on asking the installer about changing the IP option because I believe we still can BUT I don't want it screwing up as it's doing now. IF after a freeze I had to rely on my current setup of Wired Speedstream to the Netgear and something like having a wireless accessible home security camera system going through it, when it does freeze like it has been for my examples, IF I was elsewhere and wanting to check my house on a pc or smart device, would not be able to do so UNLESS the way it is right now, was PHYSICALLY rebooted/reset. MTS confirmed that part for what i have right now with the 2 devices, it DOES NOT reset itself, someone has to unplug them and wait for restart etc. Sucks for that.

My questions also involve the part where I know MTS doesn't want you to make some changes, doesn't their service continually communicate with their device? Obviously it would. Again with the non-technical wording, when I asked about this problem before, what they seemed to say was that (and this is quite the weird example from me okay?) "their device devices is checking the service, the Netgear one can't seem to check it and somehow between the 2 of them, THEN it stalls out..." What I gathered from that was where their device shows their service is working, maybe the Netgear says it isn't so someone's gotta go and then the dsl service stalls?

I can easily cancel a $5/month offering from Unblockus, it's not the end of the world to not be able to watch Netflix elsewhere but if I can still change those settings manually (primary and secondary dns), then I'd like to do so if and hopefully still using the Netgear router where I've logged in permission for 45 devices to use it. Like some today, we have lots of wireless items from smartphones to tv's, media players, wifi extenders, tp links etc. so all have permission for our 2 adjacent homes. I'm aware I can also allow the same things with the Gateway but if I won't see a drop in speed etc. if using my Netgear along with MTS's Gateway, I'll use it. I won't be getting into anything like utilizing the Gateway's physical connectors OR its other choices like the "DMZ" the MTS tech support mentioned. I currently have ONLY 2 physical wired lines going into the Netgear, one for a dedicated line to a pc, the other to a blu-ray player with web browser capabilities. The wired one to pc is what I use to change internal settings on the Netgear, nothing can be done via any wireless devices connected to it as it is the primary device (the wired-in pc).

The above issues with the 2 devices stalling is probably a common sense thing, even for something NOT that technical as for myself. From what I can remember from awhile ago, when I was not using the Unblockus service ie: left the setting to "Obtain an IP Address Automatically" which of course is MTS's, the leaving of the DHCP (contrary to what I read above for MTS requiring it to be UNCHECKED when using a secondary router), didn't cause me much of a problem. For the youtube thing stalling after a few videos and I've always ben using unblockus for other things so I don't change settings to use Netflix and then go back into the router to automatically obtain an IP address so I wouldn't know for sure. We are not blocked from using Youtube and as far as I know, most countries don't ban it and Unblockus would be unnecessary IF it was just for that service but our need is primarily for Netflix, could use fro Hulu etc. too.

I've been with my provider since 1999 when we first had dial-up, I'm not against them not offering support for devices they didn't provide ro may not approve but I do know that through a few conversations with them, eventually asking these questions over and over and with a few "tweaks" often enough you finally get someone who goes against their own policy and offers advice or advising what else can be changed. I'm upgrading my service to get better speeds, we can actually watch 2 Netflix movies and surf on a few devices at the same time right now with the speed I have, downloading a movie on Torrents and watching a NF movie, still works okay, obviously a jump from maybe 7 to maybe 25 is going to be a big improvement. I also have the option of going to their "50" plan, they apparently are getting over 100 in their offices....

The whole point to this is whether or not I should or can use the same Netgear router I actually like, it works fine (appears to) or should I IF the Gateway can do it all for me for what I currently have for devices, download requirements, security AND not having to physically reboot a device (in person) in the event that I can change my primary & secondary settings and then once again be able to surf in another region without being blocked.

I will add for those who don't know about MTS: we don't have any caps ie: my son could download a TB a month, unlimited is truly unlimited, they do not squawk about any usage so it's not a speed or usage thing, this IS actually stalling out and I believe it concerns Unblockus settings AND I continue to leave the DHCP setting to "checked" which is the default of this router. Obviously with regards to the part where MTS won't offer support to other devices, what am I to do come Wednesday when I have the new Gateway unit and "might" want to use the Netgear in conjunction with that?

The installer will only need to be here for about 5 or 10 minutes when he delivers the Gateway since my line is newer to my home, he'll be swapping one unit for another in the same spot and will obviously be able to help with slight configuration right there and I'll have a laptop setup for him to check service. Apparently he would have all the knowledge that their tech support does when I call them up but I really want this answered asap if he can do so and I do know most of them don't necessarily agree with the policy of no help for other vendor or mfg. equipment.

Incidentally, I found this forum and thread when looking for "problems with Netgear router and Unblocking service" so somehow my issues are known by others and MTS advised that "other people have had issues with their external router when connected to MTS equipment" and then in a roundabout way MTS tech person added "you're not supposed to change the dns..."

Thanks for reading and P.S., not promoting MTS's services, they ARE mentioned is this thread and it's their equipment. I'm not sure which Gateway device model number I'll be getting but it's apparently one they've used for quite some time. I don't think it's got much to do with the device as opposed to what is actually going on here with the network and a service I use for unblocking seems to be the culprit. I have to add this too, IF in the event I have to disable the DHCP setting later on and it involves physically changing settings on devices in order to use them, that would be a "yikes" thing. Some of my devices are great, can change my Region and view something like Netflix on a wifi media player or any pcs's or smartphones without anything else to change on them BUT if I had to change on all of them each time I might automatically use MTS's IP address and then later go back to Unblockus and manually offer the required dns, it would take me back to when there really was no wifi stuff and a switch attached to MTS's Speedstream was required so I could have an IP address for each computer used on their service. I'm happy we don't need to use a switch anymore because every so often I would screw it up and have devices that conflicted with each other and the msg. "Ip address is already in use..." made me haveto learn how to setup things properly. Now it's mind-boggling for how many devices have permission to use my wifi router-all securely BUT still some work to set those up.

Thanks again.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-04-01, 11:16 AM
 
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Wow, that is a detailed message! I don't have time to delve into much (my girl turns 8 today!) so I'll try and touch on 1 or 2 things quickly.

The new MTS modem (aka gateway, RG, etc) will be either a 3800, 3801, or 5168N. The 3800 is oval shaped and silver with black grilles on each side. The 3801 & 5168N look identical. They're all black and square. None of them are dual-band. The 5168N is now wireless N finally, and gigabit ethernet, but I don't see any settings for dual-band. So 2.4 GHz as far as I know.

It may not be supported by them, but the DNS settings can be changed for UnblockUS, etc. You can change these in each device you own or centrally on the gateway. I think MTS' concern is people messing around with settings and knocking out their service, causing a truck roll.

I believe the VPN can be set up in there too. I believe people/companies usually set up VPN's on each device though.

Gotta go, hopefully someone else can chime in. Thanks!

Authorized Service Provider (Contractor) for MTS Allstream. Any views expressed are my own.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-04-01, 03:29 PM
 
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Sorry, don't have time to read the long post however I think I got the main point.

My recommended setup which I have used for around five years with a 2Wire on MTS:

1. Disable PPPOE on the Netgear if still enabled.
2. Ignore the MTS advice and LEAVE DHCP turned on for the Netgear.
3. Ask the installer to disable WiFi on the 2Wire.
4. Have all devices OTHER than the MTS TV boxes connect to the Netgear.
5. Have the Netgear connect to the 2wire by Ethernet (wired connection).
6. Set the Unblock.us DNS on the Netgear as your DNS server.

With this all setup please test and repost if you are working/not working. If you are not working Please describe your situation at that time and we can try to help further.

PS: I am not sure what brand of router I am currently running, these instructions will work with virtually any consumer router.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-05-01, 09:10 AM
 
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The easiest way is to totally ignore MTS's setting as has been indicated. Double NAT is not the best way to setup your LAN, but trying to explain to MTS that you don't want an MTS Router only a Bridge mode or simple gateway is like talking to a brick wall.

It took me 20 minutes after the tech left. Great tech, he wanted to start cutting my Cat 6 cabling so he could rewire it into the "new wiring" standards. I use a Cisco firewall, router and access points in my house, and I am certainly not leaving my security and distribution configurations to some non-certified flunky...I am positive that 90% of the ones that I have seen doing installs at my, family & friends houses were busy asking "would you like fries with that" the week before. lol

I am sure there are good techs out there, but unfortunately I have not had that the experience yet.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-05-08, 11:01 PM
 
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I tried only once to put the mts gateway into bridge mode. The whole tv/internet service went down. Lost the IP from MTS and all. Had to do a factory reset. I'm one of those flunkys but what can I say, I'm "just" a contractor. After 7 years of doing this, I feel I've gotten proficient enough. When I see a customer owned router, I tell the customer I can't work on it as it isn't supported by mts. Bypass it, get the service working, then it's up to the customer if they want to reconfigure it (or do the double nat since everyone here says that's the way to do it)

Sorry you've had such bad experiences.

Authorized Service Provider (Contractor) for MTS Allstream. Any views expressed are my own.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 2014-09-24, 01:54 PM
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Here's my gaming problem

Interesting reading guys but here's my problem I'm not tech savey.
We have a 2wire gateway router (3800hgv-b) from MTS, I have a Dlink wbr-1310 wireless router which I want to set up as a gateway to run a software server through the game (vietcong2). The game has server settings to do this, just need a gateway so others can see my server and join it.
If I just had the plain MTS router I've been told it's fairly easy but the family wants ultimate tv, pvr and 50bhps downloads so had to go the all in one router from MTS... Any help would be appreciated.
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