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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-02, 03:39 AM Thread Starter
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Switched to MTS, internet is slow

Got my ISP change today from Shaw ($130) to MTS ($67), this is for internet, phone, TV. Its some bundle thing for a decent price, that is if the internet would be AT LEAST HALF THE SPECIFIED SPEED.

Shaw's Line - 15Mbps/1Mbps w/powerboost (cable)
MTS's Line - 7Mbps/2Mbps (ADSL2)

I don't know what else to say, so just look at these below. Print screened/copied and pasted the results since there is a 3 image limit on this forum...




7Mbps/2Mbps huh? WHAT A JOKE. They haven't changed one BIT since 2003 when I first had them. Now iam on a HUGE ass waiting list (56mins) just to be able to talk to a representative about this garbage. Makes me wonder, why do they have such a high volume of phone calls huh?

Oh, and the technician that came by today to install this crap couldn't even give me my internet password!

THIS IS LIKE DIAL UP! EVERYTHING IS GOD DAMN SLOW.


MTS didn't call me back yesterday either, their phones WILL be ringing until I get a human down to Earth answer on what the **** is wrong with their internet. Shaw NEVER EVER dropped below their advertised speeds and pings were WONDERFUL.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-02, 10:46 AM
 
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There is definitely a problem with your line. I have MTS internet with Ultimate TV and I get a rock solid 6.72Mbps any time of the day with all A for ping tests.

With Shaw my speed would get slower and slower in the evening as more people clogged up the line. I find that web pages load much more quickly than Shaw. Also, MTS is much better for streaming video as Shaw would barely have any buffer at all.

Hopefully you get it fixed.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-02, 11:49 AM
 
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Agreed - my speeds are 8MB/2MB.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-02, 12:00 PM
 
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I also suspect that Shaw prioritizes speedtests... I've been with Shaw, and although the speed is usually fast 30% ot the time, there are occasions the speed really sucked, mostly during early evenings albeit tolerable... With MTS, it is consistent middle speed... not fast but not slow... it's a tradeoff, but at least even when we have around 7 computers at home all doing stuffs like streaming video, VOIP, downloading files, everyone is still happy...

Although lately the internet (and TV) seems to have a lot of hiccups (disconnections in YM, retries in D/L, frame skips in the TV, hopefully it is temporary....
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-03, 03:07 AM
 
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cloudstrife46, I'm assuming you're on Classic MTS TV. If that's the case, your TV receiver is probably sync'd up at 17 Mbps. This means 5 Mbps per TV stream (x3) and whatever's left over is for internet. If you have a good line (as in good SNR margins) they might be able to put you at 20 or even 26 Mbps. You just have to ask them to do a line test and see if they can put you at 26.

You might be in the same boat as me, though. My line is so far from the cabinet that feeds my neighborhood that I could only be at 17 Meg otherwise my TV would pixellate.

This isn't really an issue with Ultimate TV, though, as it's different technology. Did you ask if you are eligible for it? If not, you can check on their website. http://www.mts.ca/ultimatetv

If you're not eligible, as a last resort you could ask if they can put your internet on a dedicated 2nd telephone line. Their ADSL modems can now reach 7 Mbps under good line conditions. I've been told they aren't supposed to be doing this anymore, but it can't hurt to ask.

Good luck
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-05, 01:54 PM
 
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I was told by an MTS tech that MTS dsl modems continually monitor your line quality and will adjust as necessary for stability. When I first got my dsl hooked up I was at about 2.5Mb/s for a few days until the modem throttled up to the 7Mb/s speed.

You can call in to request that they manually do a line test and throttle up your bandwidth to the maximum. However if you have line quality issues and you start getting dropped packets or even a dropped connection then it will automatically lower itself until it reaches a stable rate.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-05, 10:34 PM
 
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I think OP said they have MTS TV too, so this is a little different. The tv receiver (RG) will also auto-detect, unless they lock it in, so if it sees low SNR's it will keep it low, hence slow internet.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-10, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
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After 3 calls to MTS internet tech support they got the speed right, manually. First 2 (different reps) said those speeds were average, pretended to agree and called back a few hours later hoping for a rep that knows something about their own service. Now the speed itself is fine, well half of it.. when the line is at its absolute best I get 8.6Mbps/1.8Mbps. Seems ok at first, but there is a major problem that most overlook as I doubt iam the only one with it.

That major problem, is latency. This is flat out, the main reason I was disgusted with MTS in 2003 when we first tried their "high speed" and is the reason why I still am disgusted with them. I get nothing but near constant latency spikes to any and only MTS's gateway servers, which of coarse delays everything else after it, which is only any connection on the net. See picture, issue is very visible:



See Shaw's result, the wonderful ping to their servers. That latency performance has stayed the same for the last 4.5 years since we had Shaw. Excellent service, they advertised 15Mbps/1Mbps for Highspeed Extreme (which was the package we had till Dec 1) and I got 20-30Mbps downstream thanks to powerboost and a constant 1Mbps upstream to most servers.

With MTS.. mm no. What I said above when I said most of MTS's actual throughput speed is fine.. upload is the problem there. It seems I have to constantly unplug the RG2400 gateway box to reset it in order to get my upload speed back, if I don't it sits at 0.7Mbps ~ 0.9Mbps.. also if I stay disconnected for long periods of time such as when iam sleeping, my upload speed will vanish in the morning. After playing "lets unplug the RG2400 to get decent upstream speed" game for at least 10 minutes it will come back and USUALLY stay for the day then rinse and repeat..

With a total of over 20 calls to MTS the "best" result was a technician coming to our place to do yet more line checks saying the speed is fine. Yeah.. with the exception of Shaw's 1Mbps upload beating MTS's 2Mbps upload my speed is fine, LATENCY is my problem. Had to literally explain to him for quite a while what latency is.. After checking stuff he can't find the problem (well go figure, its not on my end, its on MTS's) and recommended the following:

1. Go with MTS Ultimate TV for more speed.

-.... I said my problem is latency, throwing more speed down that line isn't going to fix it, not to mention that costs even more and I can get Shaws top of the line speed package for less than that probably.

2. Get a dedicated line installed for just the internet.

-*Could* help but I doubt it, and this is why. As we know MTS likes to use the horrible, outdated, slow telephone line for their "High speed" internet. As you see I already have a bad delay to their gateway servers when the line is at its best. The best it would do is have all the bandwidth free for the net, too bad we don't have Lightning Bolt package or something to even try to utilize it, with latency probably staying the same. Since MTS insisted getting the dedicated line is not going to add any $ to the bill I said do it. Dec 21 its supposed to come.

The tech also replaced the main phone wiring in our unit, not even a 1ms difference in latency and its still spiking. Ventrilo, online games, hell even downloading all shows the spikes HORRIBELY, ping in vent went from 45ms (stable) with Shaw to 70ms with MTS then to 400ms+ when it wants to spike. It only does it 10+ times per minute

I do find it sad that Shaw is offering the following packages:

-High speed: 7.5Mbps/512Kbps w/Powerboost 60GB/mo limit for $43.95 Unbundled
-High speed Extreme: 15Mbps/1Mbps w/Powerboost 100GB/mo limit for $53.95 Unbundled


*Trust me, powerboost works so well... I can't even describe it.

While MTS is offering the following packages in direct competition:

-Lightning: 7Mbps/2Mbps 60GB/mo limit for $44.95
-Lightning Plus: 7Mbps/2Mbps 60GB/mo limit for $54.95


You're kidding me.. I advise you look at MTS's 2 packages and their prices, very, very, carefully. This is not counting the fact Shaw is on the future, using cable with stable LOW pings while MTS is struggling to provide a service using A/VDSL with high unstable pings.

I phoned their "complaint line" yesterday explaining my problem, the lady didn't even know ANYTHING about internet, not even latency.. she said she will contact someone higher up in MTS that would understand my problem and call me back. I knew that was just a good bye, and sure enough they sat on it yet again, no call back.

Think I said most of the problem, upload speed is poor, latency is poor. Poor latency is one thing, UNSTABLE poor latency is another, combine both and you're putting money down the toilet. I am going to keep phoning them until I get through to someone with power in that company, someone that will note this problem and that their internet infrastructure is well, failing and going to collapse sometime not too far away. Knowing MTS they will try to fix it after 50,000 people clog their lines calling about 500ms pings.

Only reason we are on MTS is because of some promotion thing that came in the mail $67/mo for internet, TV and phone and of coarse my father jumped on it. Going to keep trying to convince him to go back to the real company, Shaw, and stop wasting money. Or at least switch the internet over, Shaw is faster AND cheaper ARGH!! I also do have authorization of our MTS account as my father said, and MTS knows this.

What a huge rant.. hope my problem is clear. What do MTS "experts" think about them as a company and this problem? I say experts because many people of this forum know more about MTS than MTS. Iam one of them.. sometimes I think its bad to know too much.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-10, 02:36 PM
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cloudstrife46, it sounds like you may be at the outer distance limit from the node. By insisting on increasing the speed you are also increasing the error rate which means increasing the latency. This may also explain why the RG2400 downgrades the speed overnight as well.

I think ping times for MTS have always been higher. I'm not a gamer so I can't say if it has any impact. I've had MTS ADSL and MTS VDSL with classic TV and am currently on Shaw Highspeed. I find them comparable for browsing and downloading. Shaw used to be slow during peak times and used to throttle torrents but it seems fine now.

Ultimate TV uses VDSL2 which is much faster that Clasiic TV with VDSL and may solve your problem if it is available. I think the the promo price is only $5 more per month. That includes the PVR and 1 extra set top box. If you need more than 2 STBs they are $3/month.

Shaw's Powerboost doesn't really make a lot of difference. It looks good on speedtest because it increases the speed for the first 10 MB of a file. For normal browsing it doesn't have much impact since you typically don't max out the line speed. For big downloads it really doesn't amount to much. It does help with small downloads like podcasts.

Quote:
I do find it sad that Shaw is offering the following packages:

-High speed: 7.5Mbps/512Kbps w/Powerboost 60GB/mo limit for $43.95 Unbundled
-High speed Extreme: 15Mbps/1Mbps w/Powerboost 100GB/mo limit for $53.95 Unbundled

*Trust me, powerboost works so well... I can't even describe it.

While MTS is offering the following packages in direct competition:

-Lightning: 7Mbps/2Mbps 60GB/mo limit for $44.95
-Lightning Plus: 7Mbps/2Mbps 60GB/mo limit for $54.95

You're kidding me.. I advise you look at MTS's 2 packages and their prices, very, very, carefully.
Your comparison of the prices is incorrect. MTS Lightning includes 10 hours of Wi-Fi / Dial Up Internet Roaming Access while Lightning Plus includes 30 hours. Shaw doesn't offer roaming access. Here are the comparabale plans:

Shaw High speed Extreme: 15Mbps/1Mbps, 100GB/mo limit $53.95 Unbundled
MTS Lightning MAX: 15Mbps/2Mbps, 100GB/mo limit, 10hrs. Wi-Fi $54.95 Unbundled

You say that Shaw is cheaper but in fact I believe your father is paying $19.99 for MTS Lightning or $14.99 after the bundle discount.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-10, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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Yes I know about the *current* price because of the promotion, iam talking about the raw unbundled prices of their packages and the speeds (and of coarse latency) we're paying for. The speed and latency performance of MTS's internet is crap for their prices, unstable, inconsistent and the list goes on. It does take some knowledge and doing more than just looking at emails to notice this, hence why the bulk of MTS users are like "I love MTS ur just dumbbbbb" (not referring to you of coarse). I think 2/3 of their internet price is all for wifi roaming access, would be nice to opt out of those features for those who don't want it and reduce the price to match the actual performance of this service.

Shaw's extreme package is 15Mbps/1Mbps, that is without powerboost active and those are accurate numbers. 97% of the time I got 15Mbps/1Mbps (1.87MB/sec and 128KB/sec) when using their service. With powerboost active I frequently got downloads going at 4MB/sec, yes 4 and it didn't hold for 20-ish seconds like Shaw says, it held for over 5 minutes, 6/10 downloads did this, times ranged from 2am to 1pm to 6pm all the same.

I have looked at the VDSL statistics on the RG2400 and its connected at 26Mbps downstream and 2.5Mbps upstream thats considered "good" so thats eliminating being too far from a DSL box thats the source of their poor latency. When I said I had to unplug the box to get upstream to reach decent speeds the displayed connection speed is ALWAYS the same on that stat page (refreshed many times) and SNR margins aren't moving. Even before the speed boost when it was 2.3Mbps/0.7Mbps the latency issue was still there, not even a 1ms difference. Testing it again right now.. this is to MTS gateway server:

25ms
98ms
25ms
195ms
29ms
298ms
641ms
88ms
25ms
400ms

etc.

That performance obliterates gaming, VOIP (ventrilo), even downloading. Pretty much everything.

About to make more noise on the phone with them, just thinking what I should say. Time to sound like a broken record I guess, I will ask about this Ultimate TV but its probably not going to happen as we will probably have to shell out more $ to MTS, which will NOT happen. This explains why MTS has been so desperate for customers recently.. loosing them all to Shaw, its showing real quickly.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-21, 06:14 PM
 
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cloudstrife46

are you living in Water's Edge?

I'm there and have been having the same issues with MTS too!

I've complained till I'm blue in the face and tried EVERYTHING to fix this but MTS will not even acknowledge there is a problem.

On speedtest.net when I test Brandon MB I am getting 226-391ms ping times. My ULS 8.5 and DLS 1.5

Gaming.....hahaha....what a joke!

With Shaw..... MUCH lower ping times but horrible and frequent LAG (choppy screen)

as for gaming....I'm not positive but here's my theory...

I don't think it's possible to reduce the latency living in WPG bc of the way the network is located across Canada and the USA network access points! see the map here

http://www.allstream.com/smallbusiness/about-allstream/

say your accessing a server in Minnesota...your info has to travel to Chicago then take whatever usa network back to Min..then back around again. You'd think living in the middle of Canada there would be a US access point close to us! Anybody know if this is the case or not?
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-21, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Finally managed to complain my way into getting a dedicated line for this net, now this is more like it.



Low stable pings within MTS servers and all pings dropped across the board to everything, but it didn't come without a price. Downstream speed dropped, upload speed went out the window. 8.5Mbps/1.8Mbps turned to 6.5Mbps/0.4Mbps... fix one problem and create 2 more ^_^!

After yet more complaining I found a way to get a deal going on here, MTS Ultimate TV (HDPVR bla bla) for the price of the classic TV we currently have, so the HDTV is free. Rental of the 2 HDPVRs is free for as long as we have MTS, all this just to get the net back up to the speeds its supposed to be, they guaranteed it too, and I quote that from the tier 4 supervisor. Since HDTV uses different tech from classic TV it SHOULDN'T bring up my latency again..


Almost a month of problems and *beep*ing at them at least we get "free" HDTV.. as a result from this hell I been going through with them, hope the modem in that gateway understands what latency is.

EDIT: @ LAGGY_RAGE i'm in Winnipeg.

Last edited by cloudstrife46; 2009-12-21 at 11:28 PM.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-22, 03:59 AM
 
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Just a heads up. When you get it installed, you're probably expecting "all" the HD channels to be on. If they aren't, please don't blame the installer. They're just installing it, and have no control of what promos you get.

At the most, all I've ever seen is this:

"Free HD" theme - No charge

"HD Starter" theme - Free for 6 months (possibly a year if you're a phone/tv/internet winback from Shaw) and after that it's $6 per month.

I've never seen any of the other 4 HD themes being given for free (HD Timeshift, HD Discovery, HD Hi-Fi, or HDSports). This pi__es off a lot of people, but that's just the way they do it

The service seems rock solid though. The new "modem" usually trains up at 35 Mbps, so I've witnessed 99% of my customers reaching the rated speed for the plan they're on. The Classic system is more sensitive to distance, so people like myself get terrible internet speeds (2.2 Mbps download!)

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 2009-12-22, 04:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macman View Post
Just a heads up. When you get it installed, you're probably expecting "all" the HD channels to be on. If they aren't, please don't blame the installer. They're just installing it, and have no control of what promos you get.

At the most, all I've ever seen is this:

"Free HD" theme - No charge

"HD Starter" theme - Free for 6 months (possibly a year if you're a phone/tv/internet winback from Shaw) and after that it's $6 per month.

I've never seen any of the other 4 HD themes being given for free (HD Timeshift, HD Discovery, HD Hi-Fi, or HDSports). This pi__es off a lot of people, but that's just the way they do it

The service seems rock solid though. The new "modem" usually trains up at 35 Mbps, so I've witnessed 99% of my customers reaching the rated speed for the plan they're on. The Classic system is more sensitive to distance, so people like myself get terrible internet speeds (2.2 Mbps download!)

It was either HD starter or all HD channels till Jan 7 2011 (Jan 7 2010 it gets connected), it was one of them. One of the supervisors in the TV/internet department agreed, after several hours of me elevating my problem(s), to try cut me some slack because of these problems with their service. This is more for the internet than the TV but the HDTV comes with it so ill gladly take it, never used HDTV before. All iam looking for is my current latency (last screenshot from the 2 mts servers in the tracert) with the 7mbps/2mbps that my line is supposed to be. When it was still wired through the RG2400 I was getting the speeds, just the poor latency as showed (was at 26Mb profile all time time with fantastic SNR margins, says MTS).
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