Fibe TV Picture Quality Issues - Page 3 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

post #31 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 02:21 AM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Fibe TV Picture Quality Issues

Hi Folks,

I'm new to the forum but have been reading through a bit and haven't seen anything specifically like this before, so I'm hoping someone might be able to help me out.

I just recently subscribed to Bell's Fibe TV/Gigabit package and have been pretty disappointed with the picture quality of the TV channels. I've compared what I'm seeing to some friends with Bell Satellite and Cogeco cable, and their picture is much better than mine, while I have arguably the best TV.

The issue I'm seeing is mostly what looks like heavy compression of the stream, basically to the point where it looks similar to a low quality YouTube video. I can download recordings or find streams of content that are better quality than what I'm getting through the receiver.

As close to an Apples-to-Apples comparison that I can get:

Fibe TV:

MotoGP.com Webstream (720p):

You can see the difference in the facial details, the sponsorship logos on the leathers, and the Spanish flag, even. It's not even close. Even with the less-than-ideal cellphone camera shots.

Things I've tried:

1. Rebooting the Modem, changing cables, rebooting the PVR, changing HDMI cables, changing Ethernet cords, trying other TV Ports, etc.
2. Checking Input resolutions to ensure they are 1080p/720p.
3. Changing colour/picture modes on the TV
4. Calling Bell about the issue (they ran me through how to change the resolution, and then said I'm SOL and/or imagining things)
5. Replacing the PVR

This comparison is using BeInSport, but the behaviour is similar on other channels. I've tried the usual SportsNet, TSN, HGTV, and other HD channels and the content all has the same issues. I used the MotoGP webstream as a reference point because I can pull it up at any time and I can compare easily, but I could get shots of anything else if someone is curious to see what it looks like.

I had the Bell Tech out for a phone issue and had him look at the picture, and he said he could see a pretty noticeable difference, but couldn't determine the cause of the issue and gave up.

I just signed up for a 2 year deal with this package, so I'm a bit stuck with it, and I'm hoping someone here might have a suggestion of something that could be causing this or something to try. I'm pretty convinced that this isn't standard.

Thanks in advance!
TylerMrK is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 10:24 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 961
I would also try connecting a different TV or monitor just to make sure that it is not your TV.

I believe with the recent CRTC ruling you can cancel your Bell contract at anytime without penalty.

OTA, CM4221HD, 3410 amp, 4 way split, HW-150 PVR.
FTA, Openbox S9, 33” dish, PLL LNBF. Stab 90HH.
Jorgek is offline  
post #33 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 10:43 AM
57
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Sharp LC75N8000U, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 9865
Posts: 56,188
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerMrK View Post
2. Checking Input resolutions to ensure they are 1080p/720p.
3. Changing colour/picture modes on the TV
4. Calling Bell about the issue (they ran me through how to change the resolution, and then said I'm SOL and/or imagining things)
Hello and welcome to the forum.

2. All "regular" (HD) programming on Bell Fibe is sent to the STB as 720P with Bell converting all incoming signals to them (from 1080i, if applicable to 720P). Only On-Demand Programming is available in 1080P. See the following thread on that topic:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/188-...e-quality.html

Try the 720P setting on the STB for regular (HD) programming in case any conversion in the STB causes issues. That is an "output" setting on the STB, not input. How did you check input, or were you talking about input to the TV?

3. Changing picture modes is not going to help much. What is necessary is a proper understanding of what the modes/settings do and to optimize those settings. See the following FAQ on the topic and at least choose the "best" picture mode:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/30-5...-new-hdtv.html

4. Of course, that doesn't necessarily explain the picture quality differences you noticed between the two different photos you have in your post. Are these photos both of the TV (with a computer feeding the TV) or is one of the TV and one of your computer? If the latter, then that's an explanation and you need to connect the computer to the TV for a better comparison.

It is possible that the feed that beIN sports picks up is inferior to what's published on the web. It's also possible that the additional steps it takes to get to you cause a degradation in picture quality. beIN broadcasts in 1080i (see link below), so the additional conversion by Bell Fibe down to 720P can introduce artifacts and poor picture quality. In addition, Bell Fibe needs to compress the stream dramatically to get it to you, so there may be more compression there than there is on the Web stream.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/37-r...nel-1080p.html

Lastly, in my optimization travels I have concluded that because of the high compression, along with format conversion done by Bell/Fibe, the picture quality is actually the worst (softest) available from all the providers I've seen - especially for channels that broadcast in 1080i. I've optimized TVs on Fibe, Cogeco, Bell Sat, Rogers, Shaw Direct, etc.

I hope that this information helps you understand the potential differences that can be seen on a TV for an "identical" programme when coming from different providers/sources.

57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
57 is offline  
 
post #34 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 11:08 AM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
The photos are both of the TV; I have a 30-ish foot HDMI cable feeding the TV from my computer.

I have tried setting the TV to both 720P and 1080i with similar results, it's difficult to see the difference.

Like I said as well, this isn't just a BeInSport channel issue, it's just that the content I wanted there I can compare to what I already have on the computer. If I try watching something like TSN it's pretty crappy looking as well. It's lower quality than if I stream from TSN.ca and connect the computer to the TV.

I'll probably call the Bell cancellation/retention people today to see if they can do anything for me.

For reference, the TV is a Sony W850B 60".
TylerMrK is offline  
post #35 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 11:14 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toronto Downtown, Bell VDSL Fibe
Posts: 290
I'd suggest you escalate your support call with Bell and get a Fibe tech onsite. In contrast to 57's comment, I get a first class picture with Fibe (crisp and clear even close up on most- but not all - channels; BBC World is my benchmark). I have the STB output resolution (Settings, Audio/Video) set to 1080p as the max resolution supported by my TV.
I'm on FTTN.
It's Bell's job to provide you a clean signal, if that's the issue. The tech doing the install should have verified the PQ.
Good luck.

Former Rogers VIP, now Bell Fibe, Sony KDL40W3000, BDPS350, Philips Streamium NP2500 (2). DS209 NAS, Playbook
Norman_C is offline  
post #36 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 11:21 AM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
@Norman_C :

I'll try escalating it. The guy I spoke with on the phone was completely uninterested in doing anything. I've now had 2 techs at the house; one for the initial install (which didn't check the picture quality whatsoever, nor the internet speed), and another to get the phone installed (which I asked about the picture and said it looked bad but couldn't do anything about it).

Here is what sports look like:


Check the ref's face (or lack thereof). It's just a complete lack of detail anywhere.

Last edited by 57; 2016-07-17 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Unnecessary Quote Removed
TylerMrK is offline  
post #37 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 11:34 AM
57
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Sharp LC75N8000U, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 9865
Posts: 56,188
Be aware that the soccer may not have been shot in HD, only European widescreen. Also, by the time it gets to you, there were several conversions done to that programme. Even if a channel says "HD", the original signal may not be HD, or may have come through various sources before it even gets to the service provider. The fewer conversions/sources, the better.

What you need to find is the "best" channel, with the least compression and least signal degradation. Perhaps the Toronto Indy this afternoon, but even there it may be a simsub and not "direct". Channels can vary dramatically based on the programme source, etc.

57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
57 is offline  
post #38 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 11:44 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 15,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorgek View Post
I believe with the recent CRTC ruling you can cancel your Bell contract at anytime without penalty.
TV providers used to require 30 days notice to cancel. The CRTC says you can cancel without any prior notice, however if you signed a contract, you still have to pay any cancellation penalties you agreed to.

Some providers will allow cancelling a contract without penalty within 30 days of installation if the service is unsatisfactory. I don't know what Bell's policy is.
Dr.Dave is offline  
post #39 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 12:18 PM
57
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Sharp LC75N8000U, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 9865
Posts: 56,188
I have taken a photo similar to your photos in your first post. This was taken from beIN Sports' airing of this morning's MotoGP Starting Grid on Rogers Cable. (please don't tell me the race results - I haven't watched the programme yet). The un-retouched photo taken with my Panasonic camera represents only about 5% of my TV screen - you can see the individual pixels on my six year old 1080P Panasonic Plasma TV. The camera picture has actually degraded the picture from the TV somewhat. The white level and colour on the uploaded photo are not right, but it's good enough for a comparison of how clear the picture is.

You can see that it's much clearer than your first photo, with writing quite legible (Red Bull, Repsol, etc). It's even clearer than your second photo in post one, based on your computer's signal, despite the fact that I've probably taken a photo comprising much less of the TV screen. The issue obviously is not with beIN. So, it could be a Bell Fibe issue, a bit from your TV's settings, and perhaps also a bit from camera (phone) limitations

I have uploaded the photo - click on the link and enlarge if you wish.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Hope this helps.

57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
57 is offline  
post #40 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 01:20 PM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Thanks for the shot, 57. That photo from the starting grid is a pretty clear indication of the issues I'm seeing. Your photo is what I'd expect the quality to be like from the TV signal, but it just isn't.

The soccer photo I posted is an MLS game, Toronto vs San Jose, so it's a local recording and not from Europe or anything too exotic.

I also won't spoil the MotoGP race for you, I haven't watched it yet either .
TylerMrK is offline  
post #41 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 04:11 PM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
I just noticed one thing in the menus:

The "Bps" is listed as 3145728 on the System Information -> Network Info menu. 3145728=3mbit/s.

I'm not sure if that's what it actually means, but it is a weird coincidence that it equals exactly 3mbps if it isn't. The number seems low for an HD stream.
TylerMrK is offline  
post #42 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 05:52 PM
57
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Sharp LC75N8000U, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 9865
Posts: 56,188
I thought Fibe was typically closer to 4-6 mbps, however, IPTV uses a different compression technology from cable. Cable is typically 12-18 mbps depending on the channel and whether the provider puts 2 or 3 channels per QAM. OTA is roughly 18 mbps.

It's often amazing how good HD looks when compressed by a factor of 50-100+ because the original HD stream comprises over 1 Gbps.

Bitrate is not the only factor in picture quality, but it is one factor.

Here's more info on bitrate - it appears bursts on Fibe channels can be higher, but someone else with more Fibe/IPTV experience may be able to provide better information..

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/188-...stem-info.html

57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
57 is offline  
post #43 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-17, 06:54 PM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 15
Yeah, I did some additional searches and it looks like everyone has that bps number in there regardless of quality and content. So I guess it's irrelevant.

I tried doing some testing with the TV and I can get it to display actual 1080p content while the test is running, but as soon as I select to keep the setting, it goes down to 1080i. Weird.

I called Bell and went to the Loyalty department which transferred me to "top level TV support" and they didn't have any suggestions, but are sending a senior tech out to the house tomorrow. They said the previous 2 techs shouldn't have left without fixing the picture quality, but that's kind of obvious. The support person said they didn't know what they would do, but I figure that replacing the home hub 2000 bod would he a good start. I might suggest at least testing with a 4k box to see what happens.

If I can't get a good picture after their visit I'll cancel and hope they
have some sort of 30 day trial period type thing. I'm assuming I'll have to pay something for the cancellation, but having crappy TV isn't something I want to pay $200/month for.
Norman_C likes this.
TylerMrK is offline  
post #44 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-18, 07:17 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Bay, Ont
Posts: 34
Unhappy 1080P

I posted something about this awhile back, and I believe it is also the same situation with Aliant FibreOp. You won't get 1080p unless you subscribe to PayTV movie or program.....and I agree that we should get 1080p all the time if our TV supports it!
RCASC-EH is offline  
post #45 of 101 (permalink) Old 2016-07-18, 09:43 AM
57
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Sharp LC75N8000U, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 9865
Posts: 56,188
No channels broadcast in 1080P, so a provider cannot give you real 1080P if only 720P or 1080i is broadcast/distributed. See the FAQ below:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/30-5...v-formats.html

As indicated near the end of the above FAQ, the signal is upconverted by the STB or TV depending on settings/preferences. The "issue" with Bell is that they "downconvert" 1080i material to 720P due to constraints in their system.

57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
57 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome