Fibe TV 4K discussion - Page 32 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #466 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-03, 02:40 PM
 
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Why isn't the Champions league final in 4k? It was last year. The content selection is appalling for $5 per month. There is very little live content apart from the Jays and TFC they really need to increase the selection.

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post #467 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-03, 03:48 PM
 
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I would refuse the present 4K content if they were to give it to me for free. I could potentially have problems with their 3000 home hub modem for my home network as they have been reported.

With Gigabit Internet I get severe pixellation if downloading a big file, but watch very little TV so I live with it ...

Their customer support problem resolution is so atrocious it is best not to touch because you could get yourself into more problems as I have found it. Imagine, a second level tech. outsourced albeit ... yes proudly serving you from Canada :-) not being able to restore your phone service and saying a tech. needs to come to my home because she does not know what to do and I implore her that it is a configuration/software related which it was and fixed after almost two hours. Lucky me.
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post #468 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-17, 11:13 PM
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The HD receiver actually has a far better image quality than the 4K PVR, to the point that I think something is seriously broken or flawed with their box.
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post #469 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 12:17 AM
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Bell 4K PVR actually has worse picture quality than HD box

You read that correctly. The 4K whole home PVR actually outputs a worse quality image than the HD add on receivers. I only clued in on trying this after googling on Bell 4K Fibe picture quality issues and found a post on here saying their HD box looked better than the 4K one.

Now the 4K channels do look pretty good, but they're also affected by the processing on this box. The problem is, no matter what is displayed is either compressed even further, or they decided to add some extreme image smoothing and noise reduction to make it seem cleaner, but in actuality destroys a lot of detail. I suspect it's something they stupidly did right before the picture is output, because even the menus are sharper on the HD box. Bell you nitwits

Some pics to demonstrate. FX channel:

HD receiver:



4K PVR:



To give some background, my setup is the HH3000, initally with a 4K PVR, and now added on an HD receiver, all wireless.

Hopefully someone at Bell notices because it is absurd that the 4K receiver is hobbled with this kind of extra image processing for no good reason other than someone thought it was better to make the image cleaner. Well you cleaned way too much, just leave the damn source alone!
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post #470 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 12:35 PM
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But?

To compare the HD PVR receiver to the 4K PVR receiver at this point is unfair? 4K basically is only available on sports or VOD, and from my understand Bell's vod is 1080i or p which ever it is.

The problem with 4K at this point there's not enough shows produced in 4K. Until the major networks start showing all their entire show/Prime time line up IE the Big Theory,Gotham and other shows will have limited market. So regardless if you see it via a HD PVR or a 4k PVR whats the point at this time?

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post #471 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 03:23 PM
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You've misunderstood. The above pictures are from the same HD channel, one from the non-PVR HD receiver and the other from the 4K PVR. And the 4K PVR produces an image that's far worse.

I don't have the HD PVR so I wonder if that's also affected. Reading some threads below it seems like it is, so it might be a problem with all their PVRs.
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post #472 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 03:52 PM
 
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So you're saying you have a 4K PVR receiver and a standard wireless HD receiver displaying regular HD material (Bell transmits at 720p).

Both receivers are set to display 720p output.

The photos are a comparison of those two receivers into the same TV.

Is all that correct?
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post #473 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 04:28 PM
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Correct. Both are connected to a Samsung 65" 4K tv.

I've also checked that recorded shows on the 4K PVR when played back on the HD receiver, do not have the blurred look, which means that the output signal coming from the 4K box has been deliberately softened to an extreme amount. Someone thought this was a good idea.

One other thing I've checked is when viewing HD channels from the HD box you should have it set to 720p and not 1080p, because the built in upscaling isn't good. Just let the tv do it. But maybe most already know this.
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post #474 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 05:26 PM
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One thing I noticed about post 469 is that the black levels (Brightness) are not the same on the two photos. The lower (4K) picture is not as black. I assume you're using two different inputs on the back of the TV. If that's the case, try swapping those inputs and let us know what you see.

In addition to the differences in the black levels, there are probably differences in settings like sharpness (which is often set way too high), white level (Contrast), colour, tint, colour temperature, gamma, etc. Even if the setting numbers are identical, that doesn't mean that the same thing happens on screen. The sharpness setting on the upper photo looks a bit too high and it's adding a bit of halo around some objects and the hair. This can make the image appear sharper, when, in fact, there is less information there...

Also, each input must be properly optimized for each device. Although the signals from most HDMI devices are fairly similar, there are always subtle differences that appear when you try to do this sort of analysis. See the following FAQ on optimization:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/30-5...-new-hdtv.html

What happens if you set the output on the 4K PVR to 4K? As you have noted, Bell sends broadcast channels as 720P and it's usually best to have the TV do the upconversion, however, the 4K box may do a half-decent job, so it's perhaps worth looking at 4K output.

Format FAQ: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/30-5...v-formats.html

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post #475 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 05:47 PM
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Believe me, the problem is with the 4K PVR. I'm an AV enthusiast that is aware of calibration, and both inputs are set the same. Any differences in black level or brightness is due to the camera because I had it on auto.

Do you not see the difference in clarity between the 2 images? There's no setting on the tv that can make the 1st image turn into the 2nd one. The 1st image is the one that's desired. My Rogers HD box also produces an image like the 1st one, and there is no added sharpness to that picture. Setting the 4K PVR to 4K makes no difference to improve the image, and neither does 720p or 1080p.

I just hope others like me that notice this issue find my post so they can get some resolution, which I think is, either get an additional HD receiver or opt for the regular HD PVR and forget about 4K. However I don't know if this issue applies to all of Bell's PVRs. It might only affect the 4K one.

I need to thank mastermixer who posted about this same issue earlier in the thread. I would've never thought to try the HD receiver instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 57
Humour me and swap the inputs. (I'm not doubting you, just wondering)
I did one better and used the same input Same results.

Last edited by 4K Deceiver; 2017-06-18 at 09:44 PM.
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post #476 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4K Deceiver View Post
..both inputs are set the same. Any differences in black level or brightness is due to the camera because I had it on auto.
Humour me and swap the inputs. (I'm not doubting you, just wondering)

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post #477 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-18, 10:11 PM
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Is that screenshot from the episode that aired last week? I'll re-record that episode on Wednesday - it airs again and see what I see on Rogers. The "Motorola" on her Radio mic should be a good indicator.

Did you try 4K output format?

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post #478 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-19, 07:54 AM
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I'm not sure which episode this was, I just happened to have it on. They were doing a marathon of the whole season I think. The Nikki character had just been taken to jail.

Probably not the best choice of scenes to compare but you can also check her badge and those 3 dots on the whiteboard to the side of her head. And yeah I've tried 4K output, it doesn't improve the HD channels. For those pics I had it on 1080p.
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post #479 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-19, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4K Deceiver View Post
For those pics I had it on 1080p.
In an earlier post you said 720P, which is what it should be on since that's what the incoming signal is, as discussed in previous posts. That way the TV will upconvert to 4k in one step, rather than Box to 1080P, TV to 4K. The other option as we discussed is to do it in one step in the box to 4K.

There's usually not a huge difference, especially for static images like you might use on a PVR for comparison purposes, but there may be more of a difference in motion.

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post #480 of 559 (permalink) Old 2017-06-19, 12:16 PM
 
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I found the setting "What is the highest resolution your TV will accept?" which I have set to 1080P, but my TV is 4k?

Is this the setting that should be changed to 720P? Thanks!
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