Best NEW Spectrum antennas? - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-02, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Best NEW Spectrum antennas?

Hello,
I am wondering what would be a good post-spectrum antenna, either a pure UHF, or combo UHF VHF-Hi?, for long distance (60-80 miles)
I can make or buy one. Is the CM4228HD the best antenna to buy for the new spectrum, or would the Winegard HD8800 UHF be better, or the DB8e?

I havent really seen any comparisons between these three TV antennas? And not much spoken about the new spectrum effects?

(I dont mind hacking a 4228 if its an easy hack and makes a real difference)

Or, maybe there is a simple to build antenna with a high gain 15+ DBa that works well on the new spectrum?
Sincerely,
Schoolbus

Last edited by schoolbus; 2019-08-02 at 12:31 AM.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-02, 12:35 AM
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I don't think I have seen anything specifically redesigned for the Post 600 MHz carve in the way of commercial antennas yet. But holl_ands has designed a version of his FF6 I believe it is called for the new spectrum. I believe forum member Zank_Frappa has built it.



https://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mul...orm6bayvdaropt


https://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mul...hfff6noreflopt

DB8E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 8way split LG lcd.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-02, 09:02 AM
 
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Woah, those are serious.


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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-03, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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The FF6 is difficult. Coming up with the angles on the reflector and bending things to the correct degree is painful. I built an FF4 before.
I'd rather build this one below, its simpler, but optimized for the new spectrum and maybe with solid triangles,(?), which I hear are better, and stronger:
https://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mul...yscreenreflopt.

Curious, if the side lobes could be merged in the with main lobe, would that improve forward gain? Side lobes seem to be a waste.

I was also thinking of a fat dipole antenna like one of the ones on this link (below) only optimized for the new spectrum.


I just want a simple to build 15++ dbi antenna. For the new spectrum. Or one I could buy maybe.
Schoolbus
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-04, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoolbus View Post
Hello,
I am wondering what would be a good post-spectrum antenna, either a pure UHF, or combo UHF VHF-Hi?,
(I dont mind hacking a 4228 if its an easy hack and makes a real difference)
Hacking a 4228HD for the low end of UHF could be done, but it wouldn't be easy. You would have to increase the length of the whiskers and increase the vertical spacing between the bays to about 10.5 or 11 inches.

There is a Yagi made in the UK that has increased gain at the low end of UHF, which is the XB 16A, an A-Group Aerial.



Gain is in dBd, add 2.15 for dBi.

Their A-Band is 21 to 37, which is about the same as our 14 to 37 because their channels are wider.

https://www.aerialsandtv.com/atvstoc...ts.html#Agroup

https://www.aerialsandtv.com/onlineaerials.html#XB16s

Item:
XB16A Aerial
Price: £62.00

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883

Last edited by rabbit73; 2019-08-04 at 10:01 AM.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-04, 06:40 PM
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Fol. Comparison Chart shows A-D Modeling Results for DB-8e [specs say it IGNORES the 2-Way Combiner Loss] vs my 4nec2 Modeling Results for CM4228HD with HHH Mod (per my measurements and there is ZERO Combiner Loss). Note that I added a comment that Gain for DB-8e would be LOWER by about 0.5 to 1.5+ dB, not KNOWING the Insertion Loss for A-D's 2-Way Combiner...with lower loss on the lower Freqs. So to the first order approximation they are the SAME [w/o my HHH mod], with the CM4228HD usually being much less cost, uncertainty in Loss for A-D's 2-Way Combiner...and BTW: I have a mod to improve CM4228HD UHF Gain and also a mod to improve Hi-VHF SWR:
https://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mul...dshorizharness
https://imageevent.com/holl_ands/mul...8hdhhhtsrsyrod

However, Comparison Chart shows that W-G HD7698 and Monster All-Band HD8200 specs show the highest Gain over most of the UHF Band below 608 MHz (NEW UHF Band Highest Freq).

FYI: 2-Way Combiner Loss is the same as the Internal Loss when used as a Splitter....which is anything in excess of 3.0 dB in the fol. specs for hollands RF Splitters...who actually publishes both Typical and QC MAX Specs....unlike most other mfrs who are likely exceeding these "good" specs:
https://www.3starinc.com/manuals/GHS..._Splitters.pdf [0.8 to 0.9 dB Internal Loss]
http://www.hollandelectronics.com/ca...-Splitters.pdf [0.9 to 1.0 dB Internal Loss]

ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS show Max Loss CAN be a bit HIGHER:
I made on various 2-Port & 3-Port RF Splitter/Combiners in Jan2005:
https://photos.imageevent.com/holl_a...20RevB.xls.pdf
Tripelo made on W-G SD-3700 Splitter/Combiner in Nov2011:
https://photos.imageevent.com/holl_a...026Nov2011.gif
ADTech made on various 2-Port RF Splitter/Combiners in Jul2014:
https://photos.imageevent.com/holl_a...etail_2014.pdf

Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands

Last edited by holl_ands; 2019-08-04 at 07:37 PM.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-04, 08:30 PM
 
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Quote:
I believe forum member Zank_Frappa has built it.
Yes I built it but couldn't use it due to my balcony railing height. It didn't work work as well when I changed the reflector height to allow me to point it east and west as my FF4 can.

I am presently using the FF4 as seen here:

UHF Free-Form 4-Bay + DblAnglRefl

My version is the one with the 48"tall x 36"w (unfolded) reflector. It's a superb antenna and my hat goes off to holl_ands for all his fantastic work helping all of us OTA'ers maximize reception.

215 transmitters
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-05, 05:51 AM
 
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https://ypylypenko.livejournal.com/67090.html

retail price here is $8 USD
weight is ~700 g
zero wind resistance, prone to ice, wind, rain, dust & corrosion

https://ypylypenko.livejournal.com/33045.html
FF6 VDAR has outstanding perfomance (16+ dBi > 490 MHz, 15+ dBi > 470 MHz) but very big, heavy and complicated

We use 2xYagi when extra gain needed (distributed cabling or fringe areas), very cheap, very easy, 10+ years with no service, low wind resistance (no problem to use high mast)

Last edited by Yurii Pylypenko; 2019-08-05 at 06:06 AM.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-08, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
 
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Many antennas have a peak towards the top of the UHF spectrum, but low UHF is normally much weaker, and that is where the new UHF spectrum is, the general exception to this rule are a couple of the FAT DIPOLE antennas Hollands has modelled.
The $8 USD antenna Yuri mentions above, shows this too.
The FAT Dipole Antennas and some of Hollands simple and sweet loop antennas, like the Quad Trapezoid types with reflectors, have a much flatter gain across the spectrum, and less directional.

But if remodelled, I think all the antennas, being able to focus on a smaller spectrum, would preform better, yes?
Schoolbus
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-08, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoolbus View Post
Curious, if the side lobes could be merged in the with main lobe, would that improve forward gain? Side lobes seem to be a waste.
Might be a waste for you, but not necessarily for everyone. Every person's specific situation is different. A single narrow main beam might not be desirable. Especially for someone who just wants to put up an antenna and not spend hours trying to find a magic sweet spot, only to find it changes two days later under different weather conditions. Yes there are always tradeoffs.
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DB8E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 8way split LG lcd.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-08, 05:00 PM
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I'm in the process of cranking out some additional NEW UHF BAND Antenna Designs......
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Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-08, 06:11 PM
 
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Quote:
I just want a simple to build 15++ dbi antenna. For the new spectrum. Or one I could buy maybe.
Nikimi modelled some UHF yagis that were specific to portions of the UHF band. I was thinking of building his Low UHF/3 yagi, but don't really have a compelling reason to do so...

Nikimi's webage
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-09, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old sparks View Post
Nikimi modelled some UHF yagis that were specific to portions of the UHF band. I was thinking of building his Low UHF/3 yagi, but don't really have a compelling reason to do so...

Nikimi's webage
OldSparks. Thanks for pointing them out, very interesting. But Yagis are directional to an extreme, yes?

Regarding post #10, Majortom, that the whole idea- if the sidelobes could be merged into a stronger and broader main lobe, that would give better channel options (at least more useful for me, for me, the channels I am gunning for are 30-40 degrees apart from me).
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-09, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
I'm in the process of cranking out some additional NEW UHF BAND Antenna Designs......
Hollands, we very much look forward to them. Building a new antenna is an itch I have to scratch.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 2019-08-09, 08:07 PM
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Yes, when you squeeze a balloon, it tends to get elongated..
typically broader or wider beam = lower forward gain but easier to aim.

narrow beam = higher gain, more difficult to aim.
Again, every person's situation is different.
what is good for you, may not be good for someone else.

DB8E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 8way split LG lcd.
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