Delaware: 3 different directions for signals - Page 4 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #46 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-03, 09:01 AM Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 71
So I guess since tv fool says the weakest station i receive is 14nmdb
my antenna must be providing 14 to 16DB

I ordered a RCA PreAmp I think they are rated at 20db for uhf and maybe 12 for lower channels.

Haven't been using the antenna since i first tested it
Need to rewrap the ends where the copper wraps around the aluminum tube with some aluminum duct tape. It might provide a better connection. I do have it screwed down to the aluminum tube but I wanted a bit more so i made one loop around the tube at the end and put some electrical tape on it while I was bending the copper.

It is also 12ga copper which I guess is ok.. It is what I had in my scrap box.

The balun isn't soldered to the copper. maybe I will do that.

I think the reflector screen is only marginally effective I have to address that.

So whenever amazon finally delivers my amp I will be ready to do some more testing until then its sitting in the basement.

I do think the steel garage door did effect the signal.. when the door was closed the signal was blocked and then when it was open it was blocked from the top.. It must have had some effect on it.
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post #47 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-18, 01:33 AM Thread Starter
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Antenna Update

So I finally received the RCA PreAmp after amazon taking 14 days for a delivery... gees..

Anyway so last night I installed the preamp and added some things to the antenna.

First I added aluminum foil to the reflector and left a gap open between the dipoles at the center. The foil is thick.. well for foil its thick its renolds brand.

Also I removed the electrical tape that was wrapping the copper lines to the dipoles and replaced it with aluminum duct tape. I hoped that would provide a better connection than just the loop and screw of the copper and the electrical tape. I figure it can't hurt. I burnished down the aluminum duct tape really well and gave it about 4 wraps of it.

Anyway my results after the amp were somewhat disappointing. I do receive quite a few channels when they want to come in and i don't get cutouts or fragments when things are good.

I was working overnight and had mixed results as I worked on the antenna.

I should Add sat image .. no clouds here for 200 mile radius all night.

Its accuracy seems to be off and random. This might be because the reflector is flexing or the dipoles are shifting but I can't say.

It could also be because the antenna is in my garage however I broke out my esky antenna and it had good directional control and lined up well with the magnetic north towards philly.

Although I point towards philly I am also getting wmar to the south of me. It could be rear gain that the antenna reflector is not stopping.

WMAR 38 real 2.1 virtual 14.3NMdb -76.5Pwr(dbm) distance 59miles at 273° south when the antenna is pointed to 30° north.

Whatever the reason its an ABC affiliate and one philly station channel 6 actual and virtual is the reason I made my dipoles longer but I do not pick up vhf from philly with this or my esky $30 antenna.

I would say the antenna I built with the RCA 20uhf/12vhf amp connected does do better than the esky but the results are not quite enough to get dependable viewing all day long.

For one thing about sun up most of my stations flake out.

They are either gone completely
require repositioning of the antenna
or in and out as they want to be.

I understand this does happen at sun up and dusk but its a problem that needs to be addressed.

The station I want to watch primarily is Fox Philly which is 42 real and 29.1 virtual and it has 29.1 .2 .3 three stations from foxphilly. It has good long morning news show from like 5 to 9 and lunch dinner and 10pm and has some good shows and some sports.. so I would like to have it.

Overnight Fox 29 comes in pretty well as do the subs at about 5:30am it started flaking out and I couldnt get it back eventually i had to stop for the night.

My TV doesnt have a signal strength indicator that I have seen/found.

umm trying to remember what else ... its been a long day.

oh yeah

WXTF Fox is Real 42 virtual 29 signal is 30° magnetic
TV Fool is showing I get 16.8 NM(db) -74.0Pwr(dBm) at my home

I have the 20db Amp and tried both fm trap on and off I guess On would be fine because I don't want to use this antenna for radio.

The Co-Channel warning is from
WMPT PBS 42 real Virtual 22.1 signal is 263° magnetic
TV Fool is showing I get 2.7 NM(db) -93.6Pwr(dBm) at my home

The cochannel never shows up in a scan.. the FoxPhilly when signal lock is obtained never shows fragmentation or cuts out unless the antenna is moved or something.. its a good HD signal.


It seems like If I had just a wee bit more power scotty I would be getting all the stations all the time..

Anyway thats my update for now.
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post #48 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-18, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
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I am thinking maybe I should go with a yagi design that is used for deep fringe instead of this bay type antenna..

I might try to find some designs and see if i can use some of the parts i have now

If not i might end up with a radioshack one
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post #49 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-19, 10:25 AM
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Location: logan ohio 43138
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i got a deep fringe channel im gonna go after with this- extended hoverman or if i can find the nec file 300 ohm posted i may try a curtain array
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post #50 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-19, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ZippyTheChicken View Post
I am thinking maybe I should go with a yagi design that is used for deep fringe instead of this bay type antenna..
try what ya got outside, up on the roof, even if just rigged temporarily, just to satisfy the curiousity....

DB8E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 8way split LG lcd.
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post #51 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-24, 10:57 PM
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Zippy, personally I didn't have as much luck with builds on the "bay" type antennas. The Hoverman type seemed to perform better, as those eliminate the fiddly phasing lines. But, I will say that I have a Winegard HD-8800 and it is an excellent antenna for Uhf if you get the phasing lines the right distance from each other during assembly.
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post #52 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-25, 10:34 AM
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phasing lines get me too.really id rather build multiple bays and use combiner them add another bay to cover the losses from combiner
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post #53 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-27, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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so I am wondering without a good signal meter

how can i figure out what the db rating of my antenna is?

Can I find the weakest station I can receive and match that to tvfool report somehow?
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post #54 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-27, 11:38 PM
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Location: logan ohio 43138
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that a hard one zip i have been getting -8.1 stations according to tv fool at 50 ft up with jeds 7mm gapless.but that only happen when leaves fall off many variables to make a real formula for it as every situation weather and height type of antenna is diffrent.with directional antenna <ones with reflectors or rods>the formula becomes harder as they must be pointed perfect to be a real reading.ur title of thread says 3 diffrent directions.with that said height will be your friend.i have channels in 3 directions too but most are northwest and south east i am looking into the gho or reflectorless gold standard taking 4 of them and hooking them together into a quad stack/gang.just gotta figure out spacing between thought is with my preamp and taking into account combiner and balun losses i think i can get it up to 14 to 15 a bi directional at that power should bring in all the channels i want.if u think about it how easy is a gh to build without reflector?doesnt get any easier then that.granted it will be big but other then the frame it would almost b invisable at 50
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post #55 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-28, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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yeah well yeah

Thing is i live in a home owners association development and although FCC regulations would allow me to put my antenna outside I can imagine I would get a load of ....... thrung my way if i put up anything other than a small dish network dish or a very small yagi directional..

so I am stuck in the attic... unless I want to start some fights... which umm might not be so bad.. heh

but yeah i've kinda given up on the three directions.. I want to at least get my main set of stations working well before i introduce all of the problems associated with bonding 2 or more antennas ...

Actually the past couple days I have been looking at these knockoff db8's on TigerDirect .. they are starting at $47 and up to about $70 for their better model ...

Also i found some 40db wall mount antennas that look like a 4 inch thick x 10 x 20 inch plastic box.. they are saying 150 miles with 40db .. heheh they are running about $50 .. i figure they are probably good for 30 miles max but they have me thinking heh...

search on your favorite auction site av163
NOKO Flat Panel Outdoor HDTV Antenna 40dB AV163

I see no reviews on those antennas .. or any that give them good ratings .. either the knockoff db8 or the mystery box antenna.

I could mount that outside at the roof peak which is 20 feet up and in the direction kinda of the towers 55 miles away... but i hate to drill a hole in my siding to mount it if it wont get good signal or last a long time like 10 years.. hell in 10 years i won't be able to climb the ladder to change it out .. well maybe but idk the way things are going... im not that old yet but i am getting there.

so ...
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post #56 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-28, 12:45 AM
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Location: logan ohio 43138
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well my son bid on one of these and it does well brings in 21 stations at 25 ft from 27 to 60 miles away--
he offered 27 bucks for it and they took it and they sell a bigger one with more gain too.i hate it cause we didnt make it does work good though.
when i was younger i bent plexiglass brand acrylic for a living we built a box with open ends and had it mirror tinted to go over an ugly yagi that a guy putt on his roof peak.another idea would be make reflectorless grey hoverman out of 1/2 copper pipe so it supports its self and then find the old looking weather vane they used to put on roofs they sell black plastic ones u could mount ontop of it.too bad u dont got a 2nd floor big window i have seen copper tape that u can solder to that u could make any antenna design u want.
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post #57 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-28, 01:00 AM
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Location: logan ohio 43138
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u said sat dish u could try free to air sat or mount a small yagi on sat dish .if u really wanted to get creative put it on a rotor so u can spin it to area u want channels from
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post #58 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-28, 01:13 AM
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Makes a big difference taking it outside hung down from eaves.(x2)
Also I used aluminum foil lots of times, it works great, but I only use solid, no gaps, in the middle like you have....and my foil is a lot smoother.
Try one of Kitztech's preamps..... better than CM7777 (best commercial), (but not as good as the custom builder in Ottawa Ontario)
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post #59 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-10-29, 02:33 AM Thread Starter
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found this interesting an attenuation guide for RG6 18 AWG

Electrical Performance
Frequency Attenuation (dB/100 m) Attenuation (dB/100 ft)
5 MHz 1.90 0.58
55 MHz 5.25 1.60
83 MHz 6.40 1.95
187 MHz 9.35 2.85
211 MHz 10.00 3.05
250 MHz 10.82 3.30
300 MHz 11.64 3.55
350 MHz 12.63 3.85
400 MHz 13.61 4.15
450 MHz 14.43 4.40
500 MHz 15.29 4.66
550 MHz 16.08 4.90
600 MHz 16.73 5.10
750 MHz 18.54 5.65
865 MHz 20.01 6.10
1000 MHz 21.49 6.55
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post #60 of 62 (permalink) Old 2014-12-30, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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So i finally broke down and got my new antenna.

nah actually thats the Tower at Comcast they use to pull in all the ota stations

must be nice all those tuned antennas on that huge tower.

hate to have to fix it though.

Last edited by stampeder; 2014-12-31 at 05:34 AM. Reason: Photo is too large - see our guidlines
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