Gradual signal loss on 3100 and 9200 w/ DPP - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-19, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Gradual signal loss on 3100 and 9200 w/ DPP

Hello,

I have a DPP setup with 2 coax cables entering the house from the dish. On one cable I have a 3100 receiver connected, on the other I use the DPP splitter to split the single coax into two coaxes that connect to my 9200 HD PVR (dual tuner). This setup has been working perfectly for about 3 years.

In the last few months I've started to lose channels / transponders on the 3100. Doing a switch test showed that all the odd numbered transponders were not working, but the even ones were fine. The 9200 continued to work fine, including the same channels that were failing to lock on the 3100.

As a test I switched the two lines coming from the DPP on the dish so that the 3100 was using the feed that the 9200 had previously. This had no impact at all and the 3100 still had the same issue and the 9200 still worked correctly.

Thinking maybe my dish was drifting out of alignment I also checked the signal strength for the affected transponders (on 91) and they seemed fine, some in the low 90s.

Recently the 9200 has started having problems tuning some HD channels on 82, sometimes with a few second delay with the "Acquiring Satellite signal" message popping up before the channel is displayed, and other times with the channel not displaying at all.

So I'm a bit stumped, I originally though the 3100 receiver might be flaking out or the dish might be drifting out of alignment. Now I'm wondering if my DPP is acting up?

Any ideas on how to debug this further? All input is appreciated.

Regards,
Ken
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-19, 08:59 PM
 
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Water in a cable/connector or a bad/corroded connection? Maybe water in the LNB.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-20, 08:31 AM
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Location: Ottawa, ON - Sharp Aquos 52" LCD - Bell 9200, 4x5900, 3x3100, E50 DVD-R, Harmony 880, Garmin C550
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I agree with I_Want_My_HDTV, 99% of the time this is caused by a bad / poorly installed connector causing a short. Can also easily be caused by an improper or missing ground on your setup.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-20, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I'm going to take a look at my dish again, maybe try to tweak it's positioning to see if I can improve reception that way.

If water is the culprit, what should I be looking for, other than a DPP filled with water ? What are the signs that a connection, etc. is getting wet? I do have coax connections on the outside of the house that are just tightened down and not weather-proofed in any way, is that a problem?

Thx.
Ken
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-20, 09:58 PM
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Smile

In an ideal world, the run from LNBF to receiver should be one piece.....
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-21, 08:17 AM
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Waterproof connectors should be used outoors.

I wouldn't start messing with the dish alignment just yet, you may end up making it worse.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-21, 10:50 AM
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Good advice dosborne.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-21, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hi Guys,

After finding this thread from last year where several folks had experienced exactly the same symptoms that I have (with a DPP setup failing after several years of perfect performance) I decided to pick up a new DPP for my dish to see if that solves the problem. I'll also check the cables on all connections on the dish while I'm up there to see if there's any sign of water or corrosion, etc.

I'm not familiar with "weather-proof" coax connectors, can you point me to a source?

Thanks for all the help, I'll post-back once the new DPP arrives and I get it connected.

Regards,
Ken
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-21, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KShopper View Post
I'm not familiar with "weather-proof" coax connectors, can you point me to a source?
The outdoor crimp connectors I used have a rubber o-ring and silicon gel to weatherproof them.

Most professionals prefer the compression connectors and I'm sure there is an outdoor rated equivalent for those.

Just check at your local hardware store and see what they have available, shouldn't be hard to find.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-22, 08:15 AM
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Look for Thomas & Betts, Snap & Seal Connectors, best on the market. If you see a Cable Guy or sat installer see if he will part with a few of them for you. I have seen them Retail for almost $1 each, although I get mine for less than 50 cents each.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-08-29, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hi guys,

Just thought I should close the loop on this one.

Bell installer was here this morning installing my new 9242 and I showed him my problem, he looked like he had never seen a DPP before .

Anyway, he changed out the connectors on the coax cables for me, but that didn't solve my problem. Fortunately, my new DPP arrived yesterday so after he left I installed it on my dish, and voila, problem solved!

So it looks like it was the DPP crapping out after 3 years of service. Interesting, the original one was a little smaller than the new one, and "assembled in USA" whereas the new one is "made in China". I guess we'll see how long this one lasts...

Thanks for the advice!

Regards,
Ken
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-09-02, 07:12 PM
 
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My brother is having the EXACT same issue. A 3100 and a 9200. The 3100 was missing all of the even transponders and the 9200 was working just fine. A few weeks (or months?) after the 3100 began giving problems the 9200 stopped receiving even transponder signals as well.

We performed all of the same diagnostics that you did.

I'm trying to source a location in the West GTA that might be selling DPP hardware, but no luck so far. I might have to break down and buy on on eBay (which is how we bought his and mine in the first place), but the shipping tends to be very slow and un-reliable (at least on things coming from the US).

There definitely seems to be an expiry date on DPP LNBFs (or at least a much higher rate of failure than legacy hardware). Maybe that's why Bell has yet to adopt them?

- dvdrat
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-09-02, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
or at least a much higher rate of failure than legacy hardware
The failure rate for Legacy LNBF's straight out of the box is pretty darned high. Out of 36 I used last week, I returned 10 for replacement. They were either not functioning at all or were a matter of 10 or 12 % down on the others.

This problem is so bad that I now have a Dish set-up that I can get to easily, I test a batch of LNBF's at a time, replacing the lower performing ones befor I even install them.

Also I now download all the software onto receivers before heading out to an installation. Saves time and embarrasment when they are defective. It is amazing to see the differences in Signal Strengths on a series on New receivers one after the other on the same Dish, with the same cable, same LNBF, same sky conditions etc. 10% difference in Signal Strength, is NOT unusual.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 2008-09-03, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Well, for what it is worth I just bought my replacement DPP on Ebay (same as the original). Ended up costing me approx. $50 ( $17 USD for the item and $30USD for shipping to Canada), but it showed up in just over a week, so that wasn't too bad.

Regards,
Ken
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 2009-09-23, 11:00 PM
 
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i am having the same problem
when i do signal strength i get 92% on 82 and 50% on 91 both locked

but I am gett the satellite signal is unavailabe and was only getting it on 91 sat channels now im getting it on 82 sat channels

do you replace the dpp lnb or the dpp switch 44 or both

i am running dpp 44 switch to 5800 and 9200 for a few years without trouble

also using separator on the 9200 only

all advise greatly appreciated.
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