ON/MI - Windsor, Detroit, Sarnia, Leamington, Chatham - OTA - Page 48 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #706 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-04-14, 10:43 PM
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: East Windsor
Posts: 161
You must be losing signal someplace in your cable run. Is it all RG6 cable? If you have 3 pieces pieced together, check all of them, the cable grade is generally written right on the cable. If you're using RG58 or 59 outdoors, you could easily be losing some signal. Not to mention the fact that every in line coupler is a bit of signal loss, i forget how much... somewhere around 1DB each or so. So yes, an amp would help, but based on your location and the fact that you have the thing mounted up high outdoors, there is definitely something wrong.

I setup my father in law with a 4228 out in east windsor, and the thing is indoors leaning against a wall, pointed to Detroit... and he gets all the Detroit signals and even gets ION 31 from Ann Arbor LOL. Fox 2 on VHF 7 is a bit in and out, as the 4228 doesn't get great VHF gain... but once I mount it outdoors he'll get it no problem. He's also NOT using an amp, but has a very short run of RG6 cabling.

What type of tuner are you using? I'd look at the cable setup first. Run a new line possibly if your cable is old and not all RG6. Also take a look at your connectors on all 3 cables. I personally don't use anything less than compression fit anywhere indoors/outdoors as it is simply the best connector with the least amount of singal loss. (expensive, but they are awesome, you can't even pull them off once properly cripmed)

Just my two cents.

Antennacraft HBU33, Antennacraft 10G201 preamp, Samsung PN50A650 Plasma, Samsung LN40B540 LCD.
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post #707 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-04-15, 10:04 AM
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Thanks, DR! Great info, really got me thinking and the first thing I tried was the 3rd piece of coax I was using. It was labelled Digital Satellite Cable and I couldn't find on it if it was RG6 or RG59 (or worse), but when I plugged in my newer cable (RG6) I got everything. I don't think I get 31.1 (WPXD), but I don't think I need that.

Everything's 5 green bars on Windows Media Center, now I just have to investigate getting the sub channels. Anyone here set that up yet? I'll peruse other parts of this forum for advice, but I'm a little leary that I need the TVPack since I'm running Vista and I've read that there are issues when it is installed to a seasoned Vista system.

I think I'll also start to investigate a gang set up? Is that what I'm going to need to get the Ohio channels without a rotor? No idea how that works, but I have no issue learning this stuff. I think if I turn my 4228 toward Ohio I can probably assemble a DB8-type antenna to see if I can get Detroit with that. Pretty interesting stuff.
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post #708 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-04-16, 12:34 AM
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: East Windsor
Posts: 161
Glad to hear it worked out, I hate to hear anyone not getting channels they should be, it just bugs me

As far as getting Ohio channels, you should have absolutely no problem with your location. I'm in East Windsor, and I pickup:

11 (RF 11), 13 (RF 13), 24 (RF 49), 30 RF 29) on a regular basis, and occasionally see 36 (RF 46). I also occasionally get 27 (RF 27) all the way from bowling green ohio, which for me is in the exact same direction as Toledo, just further.

Thing is, I'm using a UHF/VHF combo antenna, which I think is still the best type of antenna for this area due to the number of VHF channels. Between Fox 2 Detroit on 7, then 11 and 13 from Toledo there is somewhat a need for a VHF setup. Where I'm at, I basically leave my rotor turned to Toledo full time, and I pickup all of the above from Toledo, plus all the Detroit signals as they are close enough to still pickup regardless whether i'm pointed at Detroit or not. Try that setup first before ganging antennas. Your 4228 will still do fine mind you, and will get better UHF gain than my combo. I guess the combo is just a better all around antenna in my opinion, where as the UHF bowtie you're using is more geared at higher gain for UHF of which there are alot more channels.

As soon as you join antennas, you can potentially hurt your signals in some ways... you can read more about that in the ganging thread, i'm no expert on it. I can definitely suggest getting a pre-amp first, as that will add immediate gain to your setup and is important in any antenna setup. Over at electrozad they are selling the CM7777 i'm pretty sure: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=23984

Antennacraft HBU33, Antennacraft 10G201 preamp, Samsung PN50A650 Plasma, Samsung LN40B540 LCD.

Last edited by stampeder; 2011-04-16 at 09:26 PM.
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post #709 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-04-18, 01:25 PM
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Windsor
Posts: 73
Over at electrozad they are selling the CM7777
Yes ,they have stock on both the CM7777 and the CM0068DSB which might be a better choice for use in the city .
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post #710 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-04-20, 08:08 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Windsor,Ont(OTA Heaven)
Posts: 302
When the Canadian channels convert to digital will they be of the same quality as what were seeing from Detroit??? Anyone know???
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post #711 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-04-20, 08:58 PM
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chatham, Ont
Posts: 124
i don't see why it should be any different although I know there is a big difference between the SD picture on WADL as opposed to the SD picture on WTVS 56.2 or .3

as far as the HD should be as good only thing is there will probably be more shows shownon the american stations that are actually recorded in HD as opposed to just being broadcast in it
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post #712 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-04-21, 02:51 PM
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Posts: 24,878
The technology is the same and the equipment is basically the same so when the Canadian stations come up in DTV the broadcast quality will depend on how the originating broadcaster configures their video and audio settings. Assuming all things are equal, you should not see or hear a difference between Canadian or U.S. DTV stations.

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post #713 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-04-22, 10:46 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Windsor,Ont(OTA Heaven)
Posts: 302
I understand about the SD to HD quality diff. I had heard awhile ago that the Cdn. providers might use a diff standard.Thx for the info.
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post #714 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-05-23, 09:28 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Windsor,Ont(OTA Heaven)
Posts: 302
Ok, its summer cottage time in essex co., last summer put up a an old style 4 bay but was brand new with 10 element old rad shack fm ant.Were just out a week ago and brought the GE conv box with me.Still could not get WNWO24 Toledo even though they upped their pwr.Right now ant is 15-18ft up but i have quite a few trees around me.Two things i want to try this summer.....

1 Gang the 4 bay and the fm ant which should work as a vhf ant right??? Should I use a splitter to do this???


2 Gang two 4 bay ant one atop the other both facing the same direction, will splitter or combiner work to do this??

Location --- Block off of lake erie co.rd50 near Meadows Tavern/colchester S.

thx for any help.
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post #715 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-05-23, 11:52 PM
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Posts: 24,878
Originally Posted by SpitsFanSec108
1 Gang the 4 bay and the fm ant which should work as a vhf ant right?
Nope, ganging does not shift the frequency ranges of the antennas or their combined output. See Post #16 in the OTA FAQ for a good introduction to ganging.

Please post your TVFool report for your cottage. Which VHF station are you trying to get?

stampeder is offline  
post #716 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-05-24, 05:19 AM
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Leamington, Ontario
Posts: 508
Re: WNWO difficulty

The inability to get WNWO around here is likely from co-channel as of late.

WDLI-dt in Akron, Oh and WNWO-dt now share RF49 within about 100 miles. WNWO uses a extremely directional antenna and sends pea shooter power across the lake, while WDLI's antenna is not very directional and sends most of it's ERP across the lake in our general direction. (Around 90 times that of WNWO). I rarely had issues getting WNWO in the past or even during this past winter when signal propagation was dead which kept WDLI away, but now that winter has ended and weather has warmed, WDLI has been dominating the air nearly continually. Because of this WNWO reception has become rather rare.

Hmm..I would of thought that those in places like Amherstburg,Colchester,Harrow,Kingsville would have an easier time getting WNWO where they would have LOS reception and where WDLI would even further away.

The only way to really find out is to point your antenna to the southeast and scan RF49 to see if WDLI pops up. If it does, then there's the culprit.

Here's what my TVFOOL report data says about this.

WNWO-TV (Digital)
Channel: 49 (24.1)
Network: NBC
Maximum ERP: 118.000 kW
Coordinates: 41.667547 -83.356041

Effective ERP: 7.486 kW  (Adjusted according to your location)
Distance: 48.1 miles  Azimuth: 232 degrees  Compass: 239 degrees


WDLI-TV (Digital)
Channel: 49 (17.1)
Network: Independent
Maximum ERP: 900.000 kW
Coordinates: 41.055611 -81.593731

Effective ERP: 678.961 kW  (Adjusted according to your location)
Distance: 89.3 miles  Azimuth: 144 degrees  Compass: 152 degrees

[SIZE=1]AD 91XG (UHF) / Antennacraft Y10-7-13 (VHF) / CM7777 Preamp
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post #717 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-05-24, 08:48 AM
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 847
I agree 100% with this thought process,
I am surprised though that being so close to the lake and Toledo, that channel 24 does not come in.

You might want to consider a more directional antenna, like the XG91 like I have had to do, to reduce co channel. The XG91 is highly directional compared to a 4 bay antenna. The XG91 out performs just about anything on RF49.
The more I think about it are the two VHF stations from Toledo being received?

If this is not the case you could change the stock balun in the XG91 with a weather proof Channel Master model balun, to assist in the reception of the XG91's VHF ability to pull VHF signal's.

@phil: When did you install your XG91? Have you noticed improvement over the setup you had previously?

WDLI comes in quite frequently during tropo now, here in London, since the change in RF assignment.

roof mounted 35ft UHF Antennas Direct XG91, VHF Delhi VIP 302SR, RC 6292, Tii Coaxial Lightning Surge Protection
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post #718 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-05-24, 11:21 AM
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Posts: 24,878
With an extremely directional high gain antenna and the fact that the two channel 49 stations are almost at a right angle from each other the beam pattern likely has a null there. That means one such antenna for the weakest channel 49 station would probably gang beautifully with an antenna aimed to receive the stronger one.

stampeder is offline  
post #719 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-05-24, 10:38 PM
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Windsor,Ont(OTA Heaven)
Posts: 302
Thx to everyone who replied. Here's my tvfool for the cottage area.


stampeder- prob. a combiner is what I need for the fm ant/vhf to the 4 bay uhf.Also i wouldnt mind getting Fox8 clev.'s 8.2 classic tv.

Phil81- thx for the info on WLDI Akron ,didnt know about this one on the same 49dt as WNWO.Since its LOS the tree situation might be hampering me also.Along with my crappy GE conv box.

PanaMark- if I buy a new ant. the 91XG is my choice for sure.But Im trying to use what I have so far.Which is 2 4 bays and 1 10 element fm ant.I do get right now with the 4 bay the 2 vhf's 11.1,11.2,13.1 13.2 13.3 plus the PBS 30.1 30.2 30.3.

I am going out this weekend and will report back my findings in diff directions.No rotor just turning the mast by hand.I shouldnt complain I am getting all the Detroit's except for a weak CW50 and 38WADL even though Im pointing through the wind turbines plus the 3 Toledo's for now.Looking at tvfool last year pointing at Clev. I was getting WGGN which is like 79miles away but no other Clev.'s.
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post #720 of 1451 (permalink) Old 2011-05-24, 11:20 PM
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,776
SpitsFanSec108, edit your last post. There was no TVFool report.
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